DeSantis

28 Comments

Divemedic · April 29, 2022 at 2:38 pm

I actually think he is trying to correct that.

I would argue that the 2A says you may bear arms, but not the manner in which you can do so. If a state says you can bear arms, but they have to be concealed, or open, or must not be borne (beared? bearn?) in a reckless, careless, or threatening manner, I don’t think that’s a problem.

I would also argue that the Constitution permits a person having their rights removed from them under due process of law.

In the case of Florida, open carry is illegal, so removing the requirement for a CCW is an appropriate remedy.

Anonymous · April 29, 2022 at 3:04 pm

but they have to be concealed, or open

Those are infringements. If the clearly documented legislative intent of 2A and 1A is ignored, then everybody acting to implement that legal result, including voters, is doing treason.

Divemedic · April 29, 2022 at 3:55 pm

I’m going to disagree with you.
If the state wants to say that, should you bear arms, you can’t conceal them, I just don’t see how that infringes on your right to bear arms. You are still bearing them. Where is the infringement?

D · April 29, 2022 at 6:52 pm

You’re allowed to speak freely, you just can’t do it in a loud enough voice that others can hear you.

Divemedic · April 29, 2022 at 8:21 pm

Not the same. The 1A says “Congress shall make no law”

Different wording. Different meaning.

At any rate, whether or not your weapon has a cover on it that conceals it from view doesn’t change the fact that you are armed or not. Not even close to saying you can speak, but not so loudly as to be heard. Not even close to a valid analogy.

Anonymous · April 29, 2022 at 10:43 pm

Consider a more expansive definition of “bearing arms”, to mean “possess the military capability”, instead of “carrying their weight attached to your body”. Are modern soldiers (not Redcoats) as militarily successful and effective if they aren’t allowed to wear camouflage clothing? Concealing the weapon is a component of its effectiveness.

Divemedic · April 30, 2022 at 8:41 am

The court in Heller looked at that definition for bearing arms and discarded it using sound reasons that you can read in the decision itself.

D · April 30, 2022 at 11:55 am

“The court in Heller looked at that definition”

To quote Michael Badnarik:

“People say, well…you know….the interpretation of the supreme court is the only one that counts when we’re talking about the second amendment. Oh really? Well then you come and stand in front of my front door when the government comes to collect my guns. You’re going to find out my interpretation of the second amendment is the only one you need to be worried about.”

https://youtu.be/wp-48d_jSb4?t=15131

Give it a ~2 minute listen.

Divemedic · April 30, 2022 at 12:39 pm

I get that kind of talk from chest thumpers all of the time. “Shall not be infringed!”
“I’m gonna stack bodies!”
The ones who try that get gunned down without changing anything. Shall issue didn’t get so popular because people were shooting it out with the cops. Constitutional carry didn’t become widespread because of people threatening the cops.
There is this segment of the right who says that unless a new law is perfect and gives them everything that they want, they want none of it. All or none means you get none.

Learn what incrementalism is, and use it to your advantage. That is how DeSantis is winning.

Anonymous · April 30, 2022 at 3:36 pm

I’ve never read the Heller decision, but today I will.

The ones who try that get gunned down without changing anything.

I agree, they do, but that’s not the approach I’m talking about. Consider that new gun registration requirements received less than 10% compliance when they enacted them in Connecticut in 2014, and later in New York, New Jersey, and California. About 250,000 registered letters were sent to suspected gun owners in Connecticut warning them of registration requirements, and about 90% or 225,000 simply did not comply. There were no marches, speeches, letter writing campaigns, or similar public-political actions.

Constitutional carry didn’t become widespread because of people threatening the cops.

Then why didn’t the Connecticut state police search each of the houses where they suspected there were guns?

DMLMD · May 1, 2022 at 4:45 am

How do you conceal carry a rifle?

D · May 2, 2022 at 9:22 am

It’s not chest-thumping with a side of stacking bodies.

It’s that I quite simply won’t comply because my rights don’t come from supreme court decisions or the government.

When the Declaration of Independence talks about being “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”, I honestly don’t care if someone believes that means “the Christian God”, “the Muslim God”, “Buddha” or whatever. The point is that those rights came from something very specifically NOT government and something government can NOT attain–although they definitely keep trying to set themselves up as a deity to be worshiped.

Anyways, we *have* these rights. You *have* these rights. I *have* these rights. I for one won’t give them up. If someone does try to take them from me (or you, or us) by force, I am willing to risk my life to defend them regardless of who is trying to do the taking.

If it’s some 2-bit thug breaking into your house, are you honestly thinking to yourself “well…I stand a pretty good chance of surviving if I pull out my gun and attempt to defend my rights, so I’m going to do so”, but cowering in fear when it’s some gang of political thugs and the odds are most definitely stacked against you due to the fact that they have a *lot* of thugs, have unlimited resources to come after you, control the sham courts that put you in that position, the prisons that will abuse you, and have a great PR team that gets statists everywhere to bow down and lick boots?

Divemedic · May 2, 2022 at 9:34 am

Then. Do. It. Stop running your keyboard. If you believe it, then take action.
Still sitting here reading? Why? If you really believe in what you are selling, then do it.
Anyone who claims the above, but isn’t taking action while asking others to do so is full of shit. Or a cop. I am betting cop. This is the MO for the cops: they talk you into doing some stupid shit, and then declare that they broke up a conspiracy.

D · May 2, 2022 at 5:12 pm

I’m not a cop, although there’s no way to prove it or convince you over the internet. Not that I care.

As for why I’m still sitting here? I just checked out my front door and there isn’t anyone there trying to take my guns or prevent my from speaking. Glancing around the neighborhood, I don’t see guns being confiscated anywhere else.

They may be passing laws and restricting things in some far-off land I don’t give a crap about, but what do I care? Congress printing a piece of paper or the President signing some edict changes nothing.

D · May 2, 2022 at 5:13 pm

And just to respond to your last point, I’m definitely not trying to get you (or anyone else) to “do something”.

You decide where your lines are, and I’ll decide mine.

I don’t advocate for violence unless violence finds itself on your doorstep.

Divemedic · April 29, 2022 at 3:58 pm

I don’t understand your point here. I am guessing that you are blaming DeSantis for laws that were already in place when he assumed office.

If you become governor, and the law already says that a CCW permit is required in order to carry, what else can you do besides work to change the law?

Anonymous · April 29, 2022 at 10:55 pm

If you become governor, and the law already says that a CCW permit is required in order to carry, what else can you do besides work to change the law?

The sales pitch for the structure of the government says the bill of rights are the highest-ranking laws, which override all other laws which contradict them. So while legislatures passed 20,000 gun laws, as those infringements are prohibited by 2A, nobody is supposed to enforce them, including DeSantis.

Thus my original comment. If DeSantis admits 2A is a dead letter, then it’s inconsistent for him to pretend the government still operates like the sales pitch.

Divemedic · April 30, 2022 at 8:39 am

DeSantis doesn’t enforce laws as governor. He can’t do more than change unjust laws. That’s how our current system works. Wishing it away doesn’t make it so.

Anonymous · April 30, 2022 at 3:21 pm

The state governor is the highest rank in the executive branch of the state. The executive branch executes (enforces and implements) the laws. There aren’t a lot of police officers who report directly to DeSantis, except for subject area specialties like highway patrol and wildlife, but still it is the governor who is tasked to enforce the state legislature’s laws and the state constitution.

This is why when Obama the president and the US attorney general made political posturing remarks about the Zimmerman trial still in progress, they were formally in charge of that prosecutor, they wildly breeched procedure, and there should have been a mistrial.

Divemedic · April 30, 2022 at 5:40 pm

In Florida, prosecutors are elected. So are sheriffs. The governor doesn’t have the legal authority to tell them to ignore laws he doesn’t like. Even if he DID issue such an order, Sheriff’s and Prosecutors could ignore them. His only recourse would be to attempt to remove them from office, but that would probably not be successful, either.
Your views of how government works are ignoring reality and attempting to wish into existence a reality that isn’t there.

Anonymous · May 1, 2022 at 3:18 am

The hierarchy of the executive branch doesn’t top out at prosecutors and sheriffs, it continues up through the president:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_National_Guard

The Florida National Guard is the National Guard force of the state of Florida. It comprises the Florida Army National Guard and the Florida Air National Guard.

[…] Ordinarily under the control of the state government (in which the governor is the commander-in-chief) pursuant to Title 32 of the United States Code

[…] Guardsmen may take part in functions ranging from limited actions in non-emergency situations to full-scale law enforcement (martial law) in cases when the governor determines that ordinary law enforcement officials can no longer maintain civil control.

Divemedic · May 1, 2022 at 7:39 am

That has nothing to do with your assertion that the Governor is responsible for concealed carry laws. Unless you are saying that he should declare martial law and use the NG to overthrow legitimate authority and prevent the enforcement of laws against concealed carry? If so, you are truly out of your mind.

Anonymous · May 1, 2022 at 2:00 pm

I hold that it is the governor’s job to recognize that both the state and federal legislative and judicial branches are in error by contradicting 2A, and refuse to enforce any gun laws. Some county sheriffs and state legislatures have saber-rattled about this in the last 20 years. As far as I know the Wyoming or Montana(?) law canceling all federal gun laws for guns made in the state is still in effect. Such differing legal viewpoints are part of the sales pitch for why there are said to be competing branches of government.

I agree that the likelihood of DeSantis refusing to enforce all gun laws is small, although already, nobody seems to prosecute failed 4473 background checks.
DeSantis has resisted enforcing covid regulations, and we will find out very soon if he attempts to enforce the in-the-queue ATF regulations demanding serial numbers and registration of all the presently-legal unregistered homemade guns.

Anonymous · May 2, 2022 at 1:08 pm

Here’s a Florida executive branch refusal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_sanctuary#Florida

In 2013, all 67 sheriffs in Florida had signed a letter saying that they will not enforce laws that violate the Constitution or infringe on the rights of the people to own firearms.[49]

Legislative branch refusals:

Wyoming law text: https://www.wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2010/HB0095

Texas law text: https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/HB02622F.htm

Divemedic · May 2, 2022 at 1:43 pm

LOL. Except it was posturing bullshit. The Florida Sheriff’s association came out in opposition to open carry in 2011, and even went to Tallahassee to lobby against it. In the process, they illegally released information about private citizens who had committed no crime. They did it again in 2015. Then did so yet again in 2016.

My money is on them opposing it again this year, and every other year.

EN2 SS · April 29, 2022 at 8:25 pm

You might be a monkey descendant, I’m not.