Missing the Point

Many of the comments to this post missed the point. The question wasn’t about the legality or morality of engaging the thieves, nor was it about chest thumping bravado.

It was about the wisdom of going outside to confront armed felons when outnumbered three or more to one, and getting yourself shot in defending property that will cost you less than the cost of the ambulance ride you will take from even the most minor of gunshot wounds.

Part of life is being able to look at risks versus benefits and deciding if the juice is worth the squeeze. My family and I aren’t going to care that I made society better by three dead goblins if I spend the rest of my life in a wheelchair, eating through a straw because I caught a bullet through the spine from the accomplice I didn’t know was on my flank in the dark.

Insurance will replace losses from car theft. It can’t replace you. Sometimes, the most tactically sound thing is not to walk into a fight that will cause you to lose more than you gain.

if we can’t learn that lesson, we will lose the fight for our nation by fighting one losing battle after another. The wise fighter only engages in fights he can win and avoids those with no clear path to victory.

Good Questions

Some good questions to my security post of this morning, so let’s take a look:

  • I’m curious as to what you use as a training load equivalent?

I don’t for the higher powered 45 loads. How I address this, is nearly every pistol (as opposed to revolver) that I have is a S&W M&P: I have M&P40s, M&P9s, M&P45s, a Shield 380EZ, several Shield pluses, as well as Shields in 9mm, .380, .40S&W, and .45ACP. I also have a few Glock 19s and 19 clones, but I rarely shoot them and can’t remember ever carrying one.

Having the same models as carry pieces simplifies the manual of arms, makes repairs easy as they all look the same on the inside, and makes switching firearms and calibers smoother and easier. I know that full power loads don’t shoot the same, but it’s close enough for what I am doing here. I can still do A-zone shots quickly and effectively out to 15 or 20 yards with little effort, and that is all I am concerned with.

  • IDK if I’d go to a full size .45 tho, a single stack 9mm is very svelte, easy to carry, and similar capacity. A subcompact .40 a bit thicker, but smaller than the .45 and similar power/effect.
  • Open carry is legal in Florida on your own property. But wear a light cover garment anyway; they don’t need to know until it’s time for them to know, and you’re still “legal” if you step into the street.
  • It wouldn’t hurt to have a Glock 19-26 ish type pistol concealed appendix ish.

All handguns are a tradeoff. They have low power, not as much firepower as a long gun like an AR-10 or an AR-15, and not as much punch as say, a shotgun. We carry handguns because we aren’t sure whether or not we will need one, but it is useful to have one just in case. When I am at home, I have more freedom to carry a large handgun, hence the double stack .45.

One firearm on me at a time is all I need, especially when at home. All I need is something to bridge the gap that exists between me and a long gun. Remember, you carry a handgun in case you might be in a gun fight. If you KNOW you will be in a gun fight, endeavor to not be there. If that is impossible, bring a long gun, and bring a friend with a long gun, if possible.

When working on my property but outside, I just wear a baggy t-shirt and pull it over my OWB holster (a DeSantis Speed Scabbard that I used to use back when I was an IDPA competitor. A funny story about that below the divider)

When I am away from home, I avoid areas where I am likely to need a firearm, but just in case, I carry a pistol or revolver that is easy to carry and easy to conceal. Think a Smith and Wesson Shield, Shield plus, or J frame revolver. My EDC is usually a Shield plus (they hold 13 rounds of 9mm), or a J frame .38 loaded with wadcutters.

  • Have you made realistic plans for the “temporary” removal of your firearms after a “Good Shoot”?

I have caches of firearms. I have guns in safes. I’m not opening or revealing either to the cops.

I have a Tshirt that says “DeSantis, Concealment Perfected” on it that I bought some years ago. One of my wife’s coworkers saw me while I was wearing it out with her and some coworkers at an event. She told me that seeing DeSantis’ name on a shirt was a trigger for her because he was an evil fascist. I told her not to worry, that the shirt had absolutely nothing to do with the Governor, it was a brand of holsters that I liked carrying my pistols in, “and in fact I am carrying a handgun in one of their holsters now.”

She practically ran out of the venue and hasn’t spoken to my wife since. My wife says that she didn’t like the woman anyhow, but that saying what I said was hunting over bait, even if it was funny.

Finals Are Over

I have been offline for a couple of days because I just took the final exam for my last class to get (yet another) Bachelor’s Degree. This time, it was a Bachelor of Science in Nursing. When I went to campus to take those exams, I carried a can of pepper spray and an expandable baton on my person and a firearm locked in my truck. Why? Because of the behavior in the video that JKB over at GFZ posted. Watch the video on the right:

As I posted in the comments there, Florida law says:

A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.

Assault doesn’t include a physical touch:

An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

What is battery? While assault is defined as the threat to cause physical bodily harm, battery is the actual act of doing so. it is the crime of battery if you touch another person against his or her will or deliberately cause an injury to another person, however temporary or minor that injury may be. From the state statute:

The offense of battery occurs when a person:
1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.

Under section 784.03 of the Florida Statutes, indirect contact, such as throwing an object, can constitute battery if the indirect contact was intentionally caused by the accused and was against the other person’s will. Even spitting can constitute a battery. Mohansingh v. State, 824 So.2d 1053 (Fla. 5th DCA 2002) For that reason, I believe that shining a strobe in someone’s eye is either battery (the strobe is causing pain and disorientation), or assault (shining the light is intended to temporarily blind the victim and make it impossible for that victim to detect or defend against an attack).

Note that the law requires intent to touch, strike, or cause injury. That is referred to as mens rea.

All the law requires for nonlethal self defense is that you be in a place where you lawfully can be, and are the recipient of someone else’s imminent delivery of unlawful force. So:

  1. Are you where you can lawfully be? Yes. I am a student here to take an exam.
  2. Is the other person threatening to imminently use, or are they using unlawful force?
  3. Would a reasonable person believe that the attacker intended to touch, strike, or injure you in any way?
  4. Would a reasonable person believe that the person was about to (or was already attempting to) carry out that intent?

This meets the absolute lowest threshold for self defense. The real issue here is that you probably will get arrested, and it will cost you some money to defend yourself in court. Make sure that you have good CCW insurance, so it will pay for your legal defense.

I want you to note that there are perhaps half a dozen people that are assaulting him. That means the attackers will likely gang up on you, and that will likely mean that someone will be shot by the end of the fight.

Think about where this is headed.


Many people don’t understand the ins and outs of self defense. My wife, who has attended classes in self defense and actually has a CWP even has problems with the concept.

A couple in Sanford were checking out at WaWa when they noticed that a bottle of wine had been added to their order. They told the clerk that it wasn’t theirs, and the clerk took it off the bill. The woman behind them in line told the couple that it was her wine, then demanded that they pay for it. When they refused, she began beating them with the bottle, and knocked the male unconscious. The woman with the wine bottle was subsequently arrested for aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.

I was reading that story to my wife, and I made the comment that, should someone do something like that to me, her ass would be shot long before she was able to hit me with the bottle and knock me out. My wife’s reply was, “I don’t think a jury would agree that shooting an unarmed woman is self defense.”

I pointed out to her that the wine bottle was definitely a weapon, and not only was there a risk of serious bodily injury, the man actually DID suffer serious bodily injury, as any blow to the head that results in unconsciousness is at least a concussion, and has a fair chance of resulting in death.

My wife is from New York State. The attitude that is fostered there when it comes to guns in pretty well known to those of us in the gun community. When we were first dating, she questioned why I felt the need to carry a gun and said that she had never needed one. She was open to listening, so I took her to the range. She eventually took some classes and got her CWP.

Still, she is a pacifist at heart. When we were first dating, we were at a baseball game (the Rays v the Yankees- she is a Yankees fan) and a fight broke out in the crowd. One of the trouble makers was being escorted out by a cop, and he decided to punch the cop in the face. The cop took the guy down hard with a leg sweep. The assailant landed on his face hard enough that I heard his face hit the concrete from 30 feet away. After it was over, she was visibly shaken, and told me that she doesn’t like violence, and it makes her sick to her stomach.

The terrorist attacks in Paris were a turning point. We were on vacation in France when the attacks took place. When we saw the news of the shooting, she turned to me and said, “When we get home, I want to take the concealed weapons safety course, so I can apply for a concealed weapons permit.”

Still, even though she has the CWP, she isn’t thrilled about using force.

I get it- she is a girl, and I am not married to the Sara Conner from Terminator 2. The reason I relate this story is that you will be tried by a jury of soccer moms who are likely less gun friendly than my wife is. Remember that when you are in a situation that may require you to use force. You also need to have a lawyer who is good enough to explain your shooting in a way that will get the jury to understand why you felt the need to use force.

Disparity of Force

There was a fight that occurred in a Raleigh, NC high school. The fight was nearly 30 students jumping one solitary student. They knocked him to the ground, kicking and jumping on his head. You can see in the video that he produces a knife then stabs one of his largest attackers. Police arrested the kid, 14 years old, and charged him with murder.

Unless I am really missing something, I think that this is textbook self defense, unless there was something that happened before the video began. It was 30 against 1, the suspect was on the ground, and they were taking actions that would likely result in serious bodily harm. He clearly stabbed and then, rather than push the attack, he used it to escape the mob. The minute he was able to exit he did. The choice was to be killed or seriously injured or stab back.

Sure, he had a knife at school, but that will at most result in him being charged with illegally carrying a weapon at school, but that doesn’t make his defending himself with it into a murder case.

Another odd occurrence. At about 15 seconds, you can see what appears to be a gun that was dropped by one of the attackers.

This brings another piece to the puzzle. This illustrates a few issues.

  • You don’t fight one of them. There is always a gang.
  • Blacks are largely violent when in large enough groups.
  • Our schools are failures. For most Americans, the only place they experience being attacked is in our schools.

I’m Not Your Punching Bag

When I got a Bachelor’s Degree in EMS administration, my capstone research project was about violence against healthcare workers. Emergency medical workers are the victims of workplace violence more often than any other profession: more than police, prison guards, and convenience store clerks. I don’t know why, but people generally have no problem attacking EMS and emergency room workers. Scenes like the one in this post are actually more common than you would think.

I have always taken the position that no one should have to be a complacent target of someone else’s misplaced intoxicated rage. Many employers view self defense as a form of violence. I have even had coworkers (nurses, EMTs, and paramedics) tell me that “we are held to a higher standard, and shouldn’t succumb to the instinct of defending ourselves.”


I don’t care what profession I am in- I should not have to be, and refuse to be, someone’s punching bag. That doesn’t mean that my response shouldn’t be proportional to the level of the attack. A woman hitting me like that is going to be put in a wrist lock. If you have an effective wrist lock, you can work against the joint just a bit to cause pain compliance. If they struggle more, twist a bit harder, and they will bend away from you. It’s an amazingly effective technique in controlling a violent patient without causing injury. Just don’t overdo it, or you will wind up having to explain and treat a broken bone.

If you couple it with pressure on the ulnar nerve, forcing it to be compressed between your fingers and the olecranon, it causes a good bit of pain without causing permanent injury. It’s essentially compressing “the funny bone” and, properly applied causes the same sort of pain you feel when you hit your elbow and feel the fire sensation running down your arm.

It’s a skill worth learning to subdue people without permanently hurting them.

Not Hate

There are those who say that I “hate cops” because I disagree with their actions when they screw up. Well, here is a time when I think that the police were completely justified in their use of force:

I don’t care that she is a girl. I don’t care that she is, at 16 years of age, still legally a child. She entered into a fight with a police officer and attacked him in an attempt to disarm him and acquire possession of his weapon. The police must presume that, should she gain control of this weapon, it will be used against them.

For that reason, the officer was entirely within the bounds of being reasonable when he threw her to the ground. This is a clear case of self defense.


I don’t know where people get the idea from that taking pictures of or looking at others without their permission is illegal. It isn’t. If it was, shooting the video below would be just as illegal as taking a picture of some random whore’s ass.

Still, this happens periodically. For some reason, some muscle head always decides that he is going to be a freelance cop and use force to defend some skank’s honor. It happened to me a few years ago.

In this case, someone grabbing me by the back of the neck is about to become a cautionary tale at someone else’s concealed carry class. At the very least, there will be a bar clearing discharge of some tactical spices, and there is a distinct possibility of you having a cool cast for the skank to sign later.