The following is an electronic discussion I had with an anti gunner. The topic is the shooting in Tucson and how gun control will help or not help. This is the mentality we are dealing with: (He is in blue, and I am in red)
Anti: Tighter regulation would help keep guns in the right hands and out of the wrong ones. It’s not perfect solution but might be a move in the right direction. Holding a person accountable for their actions is reactionary, we need to be pro-active in order to better prevent these tragedies. There is obviously no perfect solution, and no matter what laws are in place bad people will always exist. I myself own a handgun for protection. I would never suggest that we make it so that good people cannot protect themselves, I’m sugge…sting that the government control what kind of guns and bullets are obtainable: like semi- automatic and automatic weapons and armor piercing bullets. Again, I never said that more regulation or better control would be a perfect solution, but putting this guy in the electric chair, although needs to happen, will not help prevent the next ass from shooting up innocent people. Tighter control can only a positive move for us as a society. The death penalty is to little to late for the innocent people affected by tragedies like this.
(note that he says waiting for people to actually break the law before punishing them is reactionary. They should be punished before they get the opportunity to harm others-DM)
Divemedic: One of the basic human rights is the right to exist and to defend that existence. A gun is the best way for a person who is weak to defend themselves against a stronger person. Guns enable a 100 pound woman to defend herself from a 200 pound rapist. If you could somehow wave a magic wand and remove every gun from the face of the Earth, do you think it would stop people from harming and killing others? In that vein, a gun is a human right, as it flows naturally from the right to defend one’s own life and there ARE many people trying to take away our guns. Diane Feinstein, a Democrat congresswoman said “If I could get 51 votes in the Senate, Mr and Mrs America, turn them all in, I would do it today.”
Anti: Sorry dude, but a gun is not a human right. Survival is, but owning a gun is not. It is an American privilege that we all should be proud to have and I would never want that taken away from good people. But lets say this 100… pound woman wants to buy a handgun for protection, the right regulations wont prevent that. I’m not so much worried about her as I am the adolescent with the emotional problems who finds daddies semi-automatic AR-15 and goes to the mall to seek his revenge on the society that has somehow done him wrong. Now, obviously if the kid really wants to hurt people he will find a way, but controlling what kind of guns are bought and sold at your local gun store will make it a little more difficult for him/her. Evil will most likely find a way, but we can at least try to make it hard for them. Diane has an extreme and unrealistic liberal idea that I personally do not agree with but I think there is a compromise somewhere in the middle of the extreme right and extreme left.
Divemedic: A gun IS a human right, as how do you expect that person to survive if you tell her she cannot defend her life? The Constitution was based upon John Locke’s theory of Natural Rights. To deny them is to deny the basic premise that our very nation are founded upon. It isn’t just me who says that, the Supreme Court has ruled that possession of guns is a fundamental Constitutional right (see Heller v DC, Supreme Court 2008)
The problem here is that it was already illegal for the AZ shooter to own a weapon (he was a drug addict) which means he broke two laws in obtaining the firearm. Murder is illegal, as is brandishing a firearm, and a dozen other laws that he broke. Do you think adding another law would have made a difference? How long has cocaine or pot been illegal? Does anyone have trouble getting those?
Anti: you ideal is a double edged sword brother, because then even drug addicts and rapists would have the “human right” to own guns. If the right regulations and laws makes it a little more difficult for me to get a gun but a lot harder for a convicted criminal to get one, I’m all about it. I personally would love to see psychological testing and more rigorous background checks. I think the law should be tougher on people who have guns illegally, and I think there needs to be more control on the types of guns sold in the US. I… think we should start asking why we think people SHOULD have the privilege of a gun, not why they SHOULDN’T have one. Guns should be viewed and treated like privileges instead of rights. It just feels like its way to easy for the wrong people to get guns. But I don’t have all the answers. I think that conservatives and liberals can find a middle ground on the issue.
Divemedic: We could not be farther apart on this. The Second Amendment and Fourth Amendment both make your suggestions unconstitutional. We are at the middle ground now. Until 1934, it was legal to own whatever you want, including artillery and machine guns. Compromise ended that. Until 1968, it was legal to order guns by mail with no restrictions, including felons. Compromise ended that. No more compromise. Gun control is a failure.
People who have read this post:
TOTWTYTR · January 23, 2011 at 10:34 pm
The right to existence without the means to protect that right is meaningless. Firearms are the best practical means of self defense. A firearm in the hands of a free person gives us the right to say no to those that would harm us. It is the great equalizer in a world where predators have no sense of fair play and no notion of mercy. The anti's sentiments in your conversation are contra survival. His is the mentality of the sheep, totally dependent on a non existent sheep dog to protect him from the wolves.
dave · January 25, 2011 at 10:29 pm
As recently as the 1960s, firearms were offered for sale at department stores, hardware stores, even grocery stores. Children would bring guns to school for show and tell. The idea that guns are everywhere NOW because the stubborn gun nuts won't compromise is false.
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