Keeping up with my current problems at work, with them requiring us to perform training on our own time but not wanting to pay us. They are saying that any training hours claimed in excess of four hours in any two week pay period will not be approved. At the same time, we are REQUIRED to complete this training, or we will be taken off of the schedule and not permitted to work.
Here is a list of the training that I have been assigned over the next few pay periods:
May 5-18
- Patient Experience Class- increasing customer satisfaction- 4 hours
- Preceptor’s monthly TEAMS meeting (preceptors are required to attend 10 of these per year) 2 hours
May 19-June 1
- Training- The Business of Healthcare, Lecture F, 4 hours
- Preceptor monthly TEAMS meeting for June, 2 hours
June 2-15
- Business of healthcare, lecture B, 4 hours
- June Skills fair, 1 hour
- Annual megacode simulation, 2 hours
- Strokes, 2024 Refresher training, 6 course series (Due 24 June) 8 hours
June 16-29
- Business of Healthcare, lecture E, 4 hours
- Preceptor workshop, 4 hours
- Quarterly HAZMAT Decon training, 4 hours
So as you can see, they are only willing to pay for four hours per two week pay period, but they assign you an average of 10 hours of training per pay period. Over the course of a year, that adds up to 240 hours of training, but they are willing pay us for less than half of it. That means I am being cheated out of about 130 hours of overtime each year, if not more. They are getting a month of free labor out of each nurse, each year. It adds up. If all of the nurses who work there are being similarly treated, and listening to the grumbling, they are, the hospital is saving almost $3 million a year by cheating the overtime rules.
13 Comments
Grumpy51 · May 24, 2024 at 10:57 am
Sounds like a class-action lawsuit is in the works (whether they realize it or not). And FEDERAL (FSLA) issues, with whistleblower protection (unless you’re a Boeing employee)
Stealth Spaniel · May 24, 2024 at 11:14 am
+1000
ANY employer looking to cheat an employee(s) out of money is basically in the slave trade. You spent a fortune on your original training, and now are being put through hoops to satisfy “their” additional training. Most of the classes are BS to stave off the FedGov three agency harpies. This country gets more insane by the minute. SUE the hell out of them.
D · May 24, 2024 at 12:43 pm
Eh…I don’t entirely agree. As an EMT there were some quarterly or yearly training courses that were great refreshers. Things like rope rescue systems. We maybe ran 3 calls per year (typically in July or August) and it was entirely possible you managed to skate by for a year or two without popping one of those unlucky calls. Same with pediatric codes. Again, maybe one or two a year, so a 6-month refresher was great.
On the other hand, the quarterly CPR training was an absolute waste of time. You want me to spend an hour in a classroom every 3 months to make sure I know how to perform CPR? We were out in the sticks. Any call that involved CPR meant you were doing it for the ~45 minute drive to the closest hospital, and you probably did it 3-4 times per month…meaning you spent more time doing it “in real life” than you did in the classroom.
I mean…sure….send me a short paragraph email when whatever agency decides to justify its existence by change the standard from 5/2 to to 15/2 to 10/2 or whatever the hell it is today (haven’t been an EMT in a long, long time), but other than that there’s typically 2 of us in the back on a CPR call. If someone’s accidentally doing 15/2 and the new standard is 10/2 someone will probably correct you…or just ignore it because it’s not really going to affect the outcome.
But yeah, we were always paid for any training we were required to take. Hell–even volunteers were paid a $10 stipend and everyone got free coffee and doughnuts. If it was an all-day thing, we typically got lunch provided.
If they’re trying to screw you out of pay, definitely talk to them. If they are obstinate, talk with a lawyer.
Grumpy51 · May 25, 2024 at 7:27 am
Uggg, meant FLSA (Fair Labor and Standards Act ( https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa ).
I was part (not as plaintiff, but as recipient) of FLSA case in mid80s that brought down new guidelines for firefighters and EMS. We could no longer show up early to the station and even drink coffee (maybe too strict of read by our department??), shift change was 8A – the earliest we should show up was 0745.
IcyReaper · May 24, 2024 at 12:32 pm
Looks like they are really pushing the “BUSINESS” of Healthcare alot. So if you look at this as a business they should understand paying their employees for required work hours.
EN2 SS · May 24, 2024 at 2:44 pm
I wasn’t a nurse, but was an automotive technician for a few years. To be certified by Ford/International/ASE/etc. we had to take quite a few courses/tests. The dealers soon found out that techs were firmly in the camp of no pay, no courses/tests. Don’t like it? We went somewhere else. One dumbass once told me “I can hire a guy living under the nearest bridge to do your job”, at which I said “do it asshole, don’t talk about it”. He never said anything like that to me again and the other techs let him know they agreed with me, do it or shut the fuckup.
Matt · May 26, 2024 at 1:32 pm
Work as a Diesel tech. Had a boss once that tried to make us do online training on our own time. Said it was mandatory. Some of us wouldn’t do it. Told him that was work related and we were to get paided. He tried to write us up and we called HR. They squashed that shit right then and there. Some people did do it and they got back pay. They “eliminated” his position about a year later. Most places don’t like labor relations or lawyers.
jimmyPx · May 24, 2024 at 5:31 pm
For those who say “sue, of course”, realize that there is the way things are supposed to work and the way things really work.
In the perfect world, an employer would never do this and if they did, you could call a state agency that would immediately jump on them and fix it ASAP. If not then you could sue, would win and all would be well.
Now reality in the Clownworld that we live in today, things don’t work that way. First large employers have all of the leverage and employees very little. Politicians and state agencies are bought and paid for. Next, executives get paid bonuses in many places based on the bottom line and if they screw you in the process too bad.
Next, IF you file a lawsuit (as an employment lawyer told me long ago) you better be prepared for major repercussions and the chance you will be fired and black balled. He asked “If you sue and win will you get enough money in your lawsuit to retire because if not DON’T DO IT”.
I know this sucks but it’s the truth. In addition if you start talking lawsuit most of your coworkers will abandon you like you have the plague. Finally if the lawsuit is really going to hurt the business and cause the bastards at the top money, why you might get depressed and “kill yourself” like the Boeing whistleblowers.
Just realize all of this before you file a lawsuit against your company. I have personally seen this happen and guys have gotten blackballed. Now one friend HAD to sue because he was fired over a lie about unethical behavior and if he didn’t sue and clear his name then his career was over. He won but he was out of work for almost 2 years because of it.
Divemedic · May 25, 2024 at 7:32 am
That’s why you file a complaint with the labor department instead of suing. I believe you stay anonymous that way.
Vlad the Non-Impaler · May 26, 2024 at 1:46 am
“Next, executives get paid bonuses in many places based on the bottom line and if they screw you in the process too bad.”
More like “If they screw you in the process, all the better!” Labor is ALWAYS the largest expense. Fuck labor and save money? 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
My Fire Dept found out very early in my career that if you so much as call me on the phone regarding business, I’m filling out an OT slip – Minimum was 3 hrs.
We had a strong union (what was considered strong for a large Southwest city. In the Northeast we would be considered meek)
We didn’t do shit without pay unless you were a hugnut that wanted to promote.
I’m surprised a group of say, 50 nurses didn’t say “Eat me. Pay me or pull us all off the floor. Your move.”
jimmyPx · May 26, 2024 at 9:44 am
Vlad, you said the magic word UNION. You had the UNION who wouldn’t put up with any BS.
When it is you as a lone employee trying to fight Goliath, it is not an easy task at all and as I said above the possible negative repercussions are HUGE for you.
In my opinion in the 20th century there was a concerted effort to discredit unions. I have personally seen their excesses and know why people don’t want them. However as more and more unethical and illegal crap happens like what is happening to Divemedic, the stronger the NEED for a union.
In my opinion, Nurses need a union in the worst possible way. There is a constant push to have fewer nurses care for more patients and patient care suffers and nurses quickly burn out. There is a reason that at my hospital in IT, half the applications division are RNs with over 20 years experience who got burned out.
Aesop · May 25, 2024 at 12:29 pm
I was going to suggest taking it up as a complaint to the state labor board.
Hereabout, Dear Employer would get a proctological exam with a road grader.
Former employer made a practice of not giving breaks.
It turned into a class action, cost them $20M (Dear Hospital, the labor regs aren’t The Pirates Code ‘really just guidelines’, they’re actual labor LAW…fork over $20,000,000 today, please; the second offense will be treble that.“), and suddenly there was another nurse staffed on every shift in every department who did nothing but break people all shift, and if you didn’t go on break when they arrived, you got written up and reamed.
The payouts for missed breaks and meals were based on years worked and whether FT/PT. My check was nearly 5 figures.
Not paying people for mandatory training is known colloquially as wage theft. It’s a form of fraud, and if you file a criminal complaint, rather than a simple labor violation, it could easily be pursued as a felony. If the owner of the hospital is a chain in another state, it can be made into a federal beef. A couple of complaints in the right ears, and all of a sudden, manglement will be falling over themselves to make sure you’re getting paid properly. A couple of state and federal labor department investigators, let alone a pair of Fibbies, have that effect of cracking open management’s mercenary little hearts.
Univ of Saigon 68 · May 25, 2024 at 5:26 pm
Thanks for the up-dates.
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