JKb over at Gunfreezone gets angry at the cops because they went to a girl’s home to retrieve a goat. I would have commented over there, but I just don’t want to pay to make comments, seeing as how I already pay for this website, so here is my answer. He says:
I read shit like this and I wonder how anyone can “back the Blue” anymore.
How about the entire story without all of the tear jerking spin?
Mom bought daughter a goat last April. They named it, fed it, and raised it. Then mom sold the goat at a livestock auction. The auction sold the goat at auction June 25 for $902, of which $63.14 was supposed to go to the state fair and $838.86 to the mother and daughter.
It was at this point that the daughter found out that the goat was to be slaughtered and eaten, a fact which mom was well aware. Daughter promptly threw a fit and demanded that mom rescue the goat. It’s proper to point out that the rules of the state fair say that all sales are final, and that’s that. So when the fair wouldn’t undo the sale, mom stole the goat right out of the auction’s barn. Mom then hid the goat on someone else’s property (an animal rescue organization) so that the fair and the police could not recover the stolen property. The stolen goat was eventually recovered, slaughtered, and barbecued.
Now mom is suing, and JKb has his panties in a bunch because he thinks that police should ignore grand theft, conspiracy to commit theft, and fraud because someone’s snowflake child is upset.
So I guess he is now OK with California decriminalizing theft if someone is really upset? Or are the cops wrong for enforcing the law? Just what should the cops do when someone buys something, the seller then steals the item back, and then hides the stolen property in order to prevent its discovery?
The response should be that the cops arrest mom for grand theft, the animal rescue for conspiracy to traffic in stolen goods, and conspiracy to commit grand theft.
13 Comments
Michael · April 4, 2023 at 6:51 pm
Sorry Divemedic I have to respectfully disagree with you.
The story I read the Mom tried to buy the goat and was refused by the Fair folks.
This sort of story isn’t uncommon with Jr. 4H’ers and plenty of times the Pet was BOUGHT BACK by the Parents, and everybody was happy. I know this because I used to donate calves to 4 H’ers to raise up for their projects.
There is that little parable:
The Folks that hid Annie Frank were BREAKING the Law
The Folks that turned Annie Frank were OBEYING the Law
The Law is not a Moral Compass.
A simple bit of human decency and the whole story would have been Mom PAID A LOT OF MONEY (counting the care, vet bills and feeding) for her Daughters Pet Goat.
Divemedic · April 4, 2023 at 7:02 pm
So the mom offered to buy the goat, and the people who owned it (the fair) refused. So that makes it OK for the mom to simply steal it? The fair has the choice of “Sell it to me, or I will steal it?” What the state fair did was perhaps heavy handed, but that makes it OK for the mom to steal something that she had already sold?
Are you making the claim that the police get to decide that sometimes stealing is OK, as long as the thief comes up with a reason that they can use to justify it? So let’s say that I offer to buy your car, but you don’t want to sell. I *REALLY* need a car, and my grandchild is crying because he wants *YOUR* car. So I steal it. Is that OK with you?
And are you seriously going to compare a livestock sale to the Holocaust? Arresting someone because they stole a fucking goat that they sold but then has seller’s remorse, so they stole it, is the same as Nazis slaughtering a little girl because she was not Aryan? Are you saying that anyone who disagrees with you is literally Hitler?
Hyperbole much?
Michael · April 4, 2023 at 8:46 pm
Where did Divemedic go?
Parable Sir. Example that the Law isn’t a moral compass.
When the Law says you are required to turn in your guns do comply? Do you lie? Do you pretend they were lost?
Sorry I bothered you about obeying the law.
Divemedic · April 5, 2023 at 5:36 am
Now you are mixing in Constitutional law and what I would do in a completely different situation.
Keeping this discussion on topic: the woman broke into another’s structure and committed theft. She then concealed the crime by moving the goat to a third person’s property for the express purpose of hiding its location.
Then people want to be upset at the cops for enforcing the law.
Can’t bring guns into this, because until there is a constitutional amendment that states children can undo a sale whenever they throw a temper tantrum, the two aren’t analogous.
The “sorry I bothered you about obeying the law” comment at the end is rather childish. It’s the sort of argument I would expect from a 14 year old. What’s next- “I know you are, but what am I?”
B · April 4, 2023 at 10:30 pm
Nope, mom had an agreement with the buyer (not the Fair) to buy back the goat. and offered to pay the fair’s commission on the sale.
The Fair told her it was for “the childs own good”.
If yer gonna take a stand, then bother to get your facts straight. The fair NEVER OWNED THE GOAT. The buyer did, and he agreed (in writing) to sell the goat back to the child and mom.
There was NO THEFT.
I appreciate your stand, but it is on incorrect data.
You are wrong.
Divemedic · April 5, 2023 at 5:30 am
Not true. The auction of livestock is covered by Federal law, and there are specific requirements that must be adhered to. The Packers and Stockyards Act There is also at least one court case that covers auction sales: Bruhn’s Freezer Meats of Chicago, Inc. v. U.S. Dept. of Agriculture.
Once an animal is placed for auction, that animal and the proceeds are held in trust and must be accounted for on the auction house’s books. Stealing the animal from the barn is illegal.
From a legal perspective, this was a crime.
From a parenting perspective, what did she teach her child? That if things don’t go the way you want, it’s OK to steal or do whatever you need to do in order to get your way.
B · April 5, 2023 at 4:17 pm
Bruhn doesn’t even come close to applying here.
Again, read the details (and of Bruhn as well, as you obviously didn’t)
The seller attempted to make whole all parties. The BUYER agreed to this. There was no theft. None. At no time did the 4H Fair ever own or possess the animal.
You need (seriously) to learn all the facts before you pontificate. Bruhn was a case about “Bait and switch” in selling meats, and the Stockyards act is “to assure fair competition and fair trade practices, to safeguard farmers and ranchers…to protect consumers…and to protect members of the livestock, meat, and poultry industries from unfair, deceptive, unjustly discriminatory and monopolistic practices” neither is applicable to any 4h auction.
Instead of replying with bullshit cites, why not just admit you are wrong here?
I’m out. We both know you misspoke because you didn’t know all the facts. Sad you can’t admit it. Sign of maturity and all that.
Have the last word.
Divemedic · April 5, 2023 at 5:10 pm
Let me remind you that attacking ideas is cool. Attacking people is off base. Consider that to be your first and only warning.
With that being said. I posted that case as an illustration that livestock auctions are CONSIGNMENT sellers who are required to keep records and, as part of the meatpacking industry, are subject to inspection of both their business and its records under the act.
Who did the “buyer” buy the goat from? That’s right, the fair. The seller transfers the item to the auction in exchange for future payment. The auction now has possession of the animal. The buyer enters an agreement with the auction to buy it. The auction takes its profit and then pays the seller from the proceeds. Two separate contracts. Seller and fair. Fair and buyer.
If the buyer then agrees to sell the animal back to the fair, that’s a third transaction having nothing to do with the fair. That doesn’t mean that the seller gets to enter the fair’s property and remove the animal. That is the crime. Burglary.
Awa · April 4, 2023 at 9:45 pm
Thanks for more context.
AWA
Burnt Toast · April 4, 2023 at 10:08 pm
Unless sellers took the cash and buyers took possession of the goat before the alleged grand theft it sounds like a simple breach of contract.
Divemedic · April 5, 2023 at 5:33 am
No. The Packers and Stockyards Act covers livestock auctions. Even without that, this woman elevated that beyond a simple contract dispute when she broke into the auction house’s barn and removed the goat. That’s burglary.
Then she hid the goat from discovery, which is not only evidence that she knew that taking goat was a crime, but is a crime in itself.
BobF · April 4, 2023 at 11:03 pm
Had the same reaction you did when I read it over there. I have to believe there are scores of parents and youngsters who go through that all over the country every year and parents deal with it. No way that is the only youngster in that situation.
But parenting grossly failed this time. Hell of a lesson Mom taught her daughter, to even include hiding the animal elsewhere. She may wish she’d taught differently when daughter becomes a teenager.
Yes, the auction folks could have given in, and in a way I wish they had, but I’ll bet they’ve seen it more than once and they can’t be doing auctions on a “maybe” basis.
Weetabix · April 6, 2023 at 1:54 pm
Mom committed a crime. What should she have done? I’ll tell you.
1. Mom sells goat in the auction.
2. Daughter flips out.
3. Mom contacts buyer who agrees to sell goat back.
What mom should do:
4. Wait until buyer has physical possession of goat,
5. Pay buyer for goat.
6. Bring goat back to daughter.
What buyer should do: charge the mom for the goat at least what he paid.
Nothing in this situation justifies the mom’s stealing and hiding the goat.
The auction house could have helped facilitate 4-6, but they were under no obligation to do si.
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