How would you deal with a criminal acting in such a manner? Is it tactically sound to go outside and engage? Or is it a wiser course of action to remain safe inside and let insurance deal with it?

is a piece of insured property worth risking your life? The first rule of surviving a gunfight is not getting in a gunfight, if it can be avoided.

Categories: CrimeSelf Defense


foot in the forest · June 9, 2024 at 6:01 am

In the forest we have a name for these types, fertilizer.

EN2 SS · June 9, 2024 at 6:17 am

IMHO, that is a big part of why this country is in the present situation, too many people want to stand by and let evil win. Because it’s insured or because it’s dangerous or the popo will handle it or the excuse of choice. Thugs do what thugs want to do because there are no consequences for being thugs and it’ll only get worse until the country is in total chaos or the populace starts holding thugs accountable, instantly.

Chicolini · June 9, 2024 at 6:33 am

As soon as a weapon was brandished, I’d open fire with my modern sporting rifle from an upstairs window

Lori · June 9, 2024 at 7:10 am

We are rural, but we have a fenced-in compound with 200k lb. Ovcharka dogs running loose. We have signs that have ‘no trespassing’ and ‘guard dogs’. The cars are inside of the fence. We leave the keys in the car. No problems ever; even when there was a major break in and theft (taking cars, tools, snow sleds, etc.) 15 days out of the month in our town; no one came near our farm to steal. You could do this in suburbia if rules allow; have a small fenced in area in the front with dog roaming and car inside. As it is said, ‘escalate to de-escalate.’

Don Curton · June 9, 2024 at 7:38 am

My personal opinion is that if insurance covers the loss/damage, the police feel like there’s no real need to investigate. Cops in this area do almost nothing to solve property crimes. And I’m not certain that my insurance would even cover that. EN2 above is correct, until there’s some very public and severe consequences, these thugs will continue to thug.

But unlike every other internet tough guy, I’m not sure what I’d do in that situation. Don’t breach perimeter is the safest advice, but theft really pisses me off.

    Divemedic · June 9, 2024 at 8:32 am

    Does your insurance cover gunshot wounds, is the question.

      Don Curton · June 9, 2024 at 11:24 am

      Yeah, the health insurance will cover that, but not the court costs if the local prosecutor decides I was a little too eager to “protect my property”. Kind of a double whammy.

the man with no name · June 9, 2024 at 9:24 am

Gunfight is a feature to the comrades.
Being left alone means deep in the forest, Pineland Mountain, ocean yacht.
Metal prices are going back up as the Final War approaches and air conditioners and car parts are back at risk.
Bolshevik Barry and the Banksters will bring Leave The World Behind to life by any means necessary.
Practice presentation with safety off and be one of the quick ones after making good commie.
No material item is worth your life or hands wrapped around the bars for years and never get too attached to anything.

Toastrider · June 9, 2024 at 9:48 am

At this point, when they’ve drawn down and are willing (apparently) to use their firearm? I’d take a page from DM’s book: don’t break the perimeter. Call the cops, record as much as possible, and if they make attempts to break into the home then shoot.

The grim part, for me, is how brazen and fearless they are. They clearly aren’t worried about the homeowner. Or police. Or prison. I wonder why that is. (/sarc)

    Jonathan · June 9, 2024 at 10:45 pm

    Don’t forget that this video and many recent stories are in Coastal California, where justice and government are topsy turkey, routinely jailing victims and letting criminals walk.
    I would expect most parts of the country to be better.

    My preferred response would be to have a trustworthy neighbor who would shine a light on them or block the road so they can’t leave. I personally have had neighbors I can count on like that, but I’m not in those areas.
    There isn’t much crime around here because crooks know they have a low survival rate.

Noway2 · June 9, 2024 at 11:18 am

No, it’s not worth getting shot over.

At the same time, I’d have no problem with someone shooting those blankety blanks for it. Frankly, it’s time to start ethnically cleansing the “Amish” population in response to the smallest of crimes. So many of them are pure garbage and criminal.

    Divemedic · June 9, 2024 at 11:50 am

    Legally and morally, I have no problem shooting them.

    Tactically, going outside to engage three armed felons increases the odds of being shot to an unacceptable level.

D · June 9, 2024 at 11:45 am

In a just world, you’d be free to shoot from cover and put an end to those lowlife thugs.

In this tyrannical dystopia, I would call 911 and sit back to watch the lowlife thugs prevent me from getting to work in the morning, thereby affecting my paycheck significantly–potentially enough to get clients to cancel their contracts for non-performance, thereby bankrupting my family and potentially making us homeless.

Robert · June 9, 2024 at 12:25 pm

(…is a piece of insured property worth risking your life?)

Maybe. It is definitely worth ending theirs. But authorities may frown on this choice. You must know the political environment in which you live.

A shot from a long gun from an interior window is the appropriate tactic. Going outside to confront the thieves is foolish and definitely a “No Go” condition. That is where you call 911 and stay inside, guarding the door.

“When seconds count, the police are only minutes away”. Or sometimes hours.

In most States, it is not lawful to defend property with force or even threats of force. It is safer to let thieves walk away with their swag than to resist them if you want to avoid legal problems. The laws are wrong. You are not going to change them by yourself.

The thieves must have visible weapons, else your “self-defense” claim will be too weak to pass. Another “No Go” condition for resistance. Stay inside, behind cover.

The police are not coming to help you. They are coming to arrest somebody. That somebody might be you if you keep talking to them. Officials generally oppose common citizens using forcible resistance to criminals. Results of a “self-defense” claim may vary depending on your location and the political inclinations of your authorities; “facts” or “laws” have little or nothing to do with the outcomes.

Jonesy · June 9, 2024 at 8:42 pm

This should be a question of: can you do something vs should you do something.

Can you go outside and defend your property from theft and vandalism?
You should, although modern society and the left make it impossible to mete out any kind of instant justice. No one is responsible for their actions these days, so your cat converters are getting stolen because of racism or some other BS. The risk of being a criminal these days is quite low. Change that, and they might stop doing stuff like this.

Should you go outside and defend your property from theft and vandalism? DM is accurate here…you have to have the tactical upper hand or you could get yourself killed. Proper decision making skills are critical.

Anonymous · June 10, 2024 at 1:51 am

If you surrender to car part thieves, and also police, prosecutors, judges, legislators, journalists, HR departments, HOA Karens, and your neighbors who snitch, then you’re in East Germany. Commies won WWII because all sides were commies. You can’t point to any part of the American government which is on the side of the theft victims.

Andrew · June 10, 2024 at 7:59 am

Around here, the PoPo say “file a report online”.
Fairly certain they quit doing “on site calls” unless the Crims are still there.
Even then they’ll drive slow enough to make sure the Crims are gone by time
they show up.

In a just world, with a vehicle loss/damage/being undriveable as the potential consequence of a theft/damage/etc, one could:
A) defend with force said vehicle, since a car should be considered like horses of old.
B) if defense isn’t possible/plausible (one was asleep during), then one could/should be able to quit paying any taxes until the vehicle is fixed/useable, and then the theft totally deducted from any and all taxes.
Oh, and for good measure.
C) scrapyard dealers taking metals from Cat theft ought to be liable for the continued destruction of vehicles. Without demand, there’s no supply.

But until then, it’s dystopia/anarcho tyranny.

McChuck · June 10, 2024 at 8:43 am

Does your insurance cover the destruction of the civil society?
The only way to deter career criminals is to kill them.

    Divemedic · June 10, 2024 at 10:57 am

    So engaging in a 3 to 1 firefight is going to save society?

      Aesop · June 10, 2024 at 11:55 am

      One bite at a time.

      It’s also hard to beat 0% recidivism.

      It takes 15-20 years to make a waste of skin and oxygen like that.
      But only a second to get rid of one.
      (Then it’s a 2:1 gunfight.)
      Nothing says you have to go for the hat trick. Take the “W”, and withdraw after getting one of them. If they stay to push the issue after that (they won’t, and we all know why), then run the table.
      Trust the math, and play the odds. 😉

      For the squeamish, put a zeroed PVS-14 on a high-powered pellet rifle.
      The guy with the missing eye tomorrow is going to stand out in a lineup.

      Rules? There are no rules here.

      Throats and wedding tackle are also good targets of opportunity.
      Be the hunter. Make them the baby Harp seals.

      Anonymous · June 11, 2024 at 4:57 am

      Let everyone sweep in front of his own door, and the whole world will be clean.

      -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Aesop · June 10, 2024 at 11:43 am

Shoot the bastards*. One or all, same-same. Leave the body(ies). Call no one.
Thow your clothes in the washer, and go take a shower. Be sure and scrub your hands, arms, and face.
Then go back to sleep.

When the cops eventually knock on your door, deny any knowledge of any shooting.

“Guns? Shooting? Moi? You must be joking. Guns are icky.
Must’ve been a drive-by, or a rival gang, or space aliens. I was sound asleep.”

Stick to that story come hell or high water.
Or just loudly shut the hell up, and call a lawyer.
And tell them you were sound asleep, and never heard the fracas.

Look appalled. Cry over the senseless violence, as the coroner carts away the corpses.

And FTR: There’s a reason horse theft was a hanging offense.
Setting a man afoot was a potential death sentence.
It had noting to do with the monetary value of the horse.

Those thieves aren’t stealing a catalytic converter.
They’re disabling your vehicle.
Keeping you from getting to work, and dealing with all the issues of life.
They’re stealing the amount of time you have to work to pay the insurance deductible.
And the increased premiums.
And any time you had to take the car in, pick it up, etc.
And go looking for a rental.
They’re literally making you their bitch for their quick buck.
Make the juice not worth the squeeze.

*(Highly recommended is one (or more) 12 ga slugs. No ballistics. Brutally lethal. Bad guys who take a 12 ga slug in the torso are awfully heavy to try and drag away. Which leaves a yuuuuuge DNA trail. And dead bodies tend to point the po-po rather quickly towards who the other parties were, if any of them escape. Call it the “Carry a 9, get judged by a 12” strategy. YMMV)

    ModernDayJeremiah · June 11, 2024 at 11:58 am

    If you are squeamish, you could always reach out to Alec Baldwin to see what his current rate is.

      Aesop · June 11, 2024 at 7:11 pm

      Wouldn’t work.
      The real killer is already doing time, and you’d have to tell Alec nobody was using loaded guns.

      Nice try.

tsgt Joe · June 10, 2024 at 6:25 pm

While I dont think it would be immoral to ventilate 3 armed criminals outside your door. Going outside puts you at too much physical and legal risk and I suspect shooting them while you are safe in the house would put you in legal jeopardy in most jurisdictions. Its frustrating that the “common wisdom” is to shrug and say, let insurance cover it.

Missing the Point – Area Ocho · June 11, 2024 at 4:19 am

[…] Many of the comments to this post missed the point. The question wasn’t about the legality or morality of engaging the thieves, nor was it about chest thumping bravado. […]

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