A Naval Officer refers to the enlisted under his command as hatchet-wielding, drunken, aggressive degenerates and perverts. How can we expect anyone to follow the orders of someone that hates them? The real issue here is that, in days gone by, officers were from noble families, and enlisted were commoners. This anachronism is a holdover from the middle ages, and it needs to be replaced. I’m not the only one who thinks so.

Some officers are so convinced of their innate superiority that they believe themselves to possess some sort of godlike status, some even going to far as to state that once a person is an enlisted man, they should never be eligible to taint the ranks of officers by becoming one of them.

The reality is that there is no difference in character between officers and enlisted. I got ripped off by an officer while I was in. This officer gamed the system and screwed me over. The CO at the time believed that officers could do no wrong, so I lost a lucrative cash award, one that went to the officer.

It isn’t that officers are college educated, while enlisted men aren’t. When I was in boot camp, there was an older recruit* who had a 4 year degree. Even so, how does attending college and getting a 4 year degree somehow qualify someone to lead men into combat?

It isn’t that they are better behaved. When I was in the military, all of the enlisted personnel had to attend sexual sensitivity training because a group of officers had engaged in sexual depravity.

There are those who disagree, but their arguments ring hollow. In this article, an 11 year enlisted man says that officers have more responsibility than enlisted, citing an Ensign serving as officer of the deck of a ship as an example. In the very next paragraph, this enlisted man says that he serves as junior officer of the deck on his own ship. That’s because the distinction between officers and enlisted isn’t based on command. New army doctors automatically become officers, even if they don’t command anyone. Doctors are non-combatants, and even though fighter pilots are combatants, they don’t command anyone^, even though all of them are officers.

the distinction is not based on command: New army doctors automatically become officers, even if they don’t command anyone. Doctors are non-combatants, but fighter pilots are combatants par excellence, don’t command anyone, and are all officers- even though that hasn’t always been the case. During World War 2, there were plenty of pilots who weren’t officers.

We see the same all through our society, even though we claim that our society doesn’t allow noble titles. In medicine there is a clear distinction between doctors and nurses, even a nurse who has earned a Doctorate in Nursing Practice. There are different status levels among doctors and among nurses, but a DNP stands on the other side of a clear border from a beginning MD. To the point where a nurse who has a doctorate is not permitted to be called “doctor,” lest they be confused with an MD.

It isn’t that the MD can do things that an APRN or DNP can’t- because all of them can write prescriptions. Even as an RN, I routinely write medical orders, so that can’t be it.

It’s because Americans claim that they despise nobility because they don’t want to take orders, while secretly wishing that they can wield power over others. That’s the reason why lawyers become judges who will jail someone for “disrespecting” them by wearing a pair of shorts to court. It’s why people can become tyrants as soon as they become the President of the HOA.

Power corrupts, and our founding fathers knew it. It’s why the founders were so careful in keeping the government a weak one.


*The “older recruit” was 25 or so. Most of us were 18 or 19. In the military, more than half of the service is under the age of 24. In 2021, the military had 592,979 personnel aged 25 and under, but 287,604 were 26-30 years old.

^Yes, there are fighter pilots who command squadrons, warships, and airwings. However, they are officers from day one, and their status as officers isn’t relevant to that.

Categories: Government

34 Comments

Joe Blow · December 6, 2023 at 6:15 am

As I get older I see things so very differently. You are absolutely spot on. What’s that old saw? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely?
It’s been said by smarter people than me on the internet, that our nation was founded and created by and for a noble, honest, forthright people. As you summarize, nobility typically held the leadership role in society. In the founding days of the US it was white male property owners (the owning of property being the important part – skin in the game).
These men had seen that power attracts evil, and what evil does with power… they attempted to create a system to contain and prevent it from becoming a problem. They did their best…
I can see the innate problem in our society though, it’s the people. One can argue the causes and effects, but in the end, our society is no longer honest, forthright, nor noble. That’s why everything is breaking down all at once.
We recently had a micro-cosm of this, a fractal if you will. We live in a high-trust society in the US. We have valuables out on the shelf everywhere all the time…. but dishonest people who shoplift are creating problems for our society to function this way, isn’t it? Being in TN, we have lots of guns in the house. Not just laying about the living room helter-skelter, but not in a locked gun-safe with trigger locks and chamber flags, either. I run a high-trust household. My kids can see or use any of our guns any time they want, just ask Dad, we’ll go shooting! A rifle in the closet next to an ammo-can isn’t a problem.
We had company visit from out of state for Thanksgiving. Guns went into the shed behind a lock and key. My in-laws do not operate a high-trust family, their kids are not safe around guns un-attended. Kinda like going to CVS in the cities, eh? Funny that the one here in the country doesn’t have locked plexi-glass covering the shelves, only the one in the city? Same store, same products, same brands… the people are different.
It’s the people… Some people seem to think it’s the dirt. They think if you take the bad individual and surround them with good dirt, they will suddenly become good individuals (aka immigration).
It comes down to the people.
Local, local, lo…. There it is again!

Boneman · December 6, 2023 at 6:16 am

If anyone thinks that the olde “Caste System” is dead and gone they’re sadly mistaken. It’s been alive and well all along, just well masked. Though I don’t think as in days of old in the British Military you can “Buy” a Commision any more. Officers vs. Enlisted. Salaried vs. Hourly. Degreed vs. the Technically trained.

Whilst I might not hold a formal degree many a degreed colleague has had to have dictionary.com on their short list of bookmarks in order to decipher an email recieved from this corner. It’s a sesquipedalian proclivity and I’ve no qualms in using it when in the mood. 😉

Sometimes you have to let them know just because you don’t have a pedigree doesn’t mean you’re lacking in skillset. And don’t even get me STARTED on Corporate Degree Worship. I once reported to a fellow, nice guy… WELL compensated Senior Packaging Scientist at a major food (confectionery) manufactory. His degree? “Animal Husbandry”.

McChuck · December 6, 2023 at 6:43 am

I resigned my non-commission way back when after I had been betrayed by individual acts of every single officer in my chain of command and several who weren’t. Most of whom were physical cowards in a combat zone (Iraq). The only decent officer I encountered in Iraq was a young Captain who was planning on resigning just as soon as he could.

My battalion commander had to be ordered out of her bunker by her boss, to go visit the troops. She visited our location, where I was the team leader/platoon sergeant, three times. I remember and treasure her every word to me (the senior person on the ground) on those three visits, one of which was an overnight stay. “Get me some coffee.” (We were ordered to turn in our grenades before she visited. Really.)

She also told me to shave off my mustache. In a country where every single man is judged on the manliness of his mustache. I somehow forgot to do so after she left. (I have dark hair and tan really well, so the Arabs all thought I was Syrian or maybe Turkish.)

In a different counterintelligence company in Germany, we had a succession of commanders from the combat arms (why?). The tanker was an abject moron who seldom left his office. The infantryman was active stupid and vindictive, and thus more dangerous. He rewrote our METL (mission essential task list) to eliminate all references to intelligence and counterintelligence, and treated us as light infantry armed with pistols. We were punished for conducting job related training for a few hours one day, when the regularly scheduled idiocy fell through.

The final commander of (NSA) Field Station Berlin was arrested by her former Sergeant Major, at the orders of the General, for misappropriating funds and failure to obey. She used the money earmarked to shut down the station after German reunification to, instead, keep it going. On turnover day (which we weren’t informed of ahead of time), the Germans showed up and ordered us all out. At gunpoint. Without destroying the documents and equipment. With harsh questions about what, exactly, we were doing as a listening post in their newly restored capitol city since the Soviets had already left.

An infantry company commander in Iraq refused to support us after their first mission outside the wire with us. Apparently, his men were terrified of what we did – without them – on a daily basis.

Anonymous · December 6, 2023 at 6:56 am

“The command’s investigation into this matter has concluded and been adjudicated, with appropriate disciplinary measures taken,” Kowitz said. “The command cannot release or discuss the details of administrative actions for misconduct due to privacy regulations.”

I call BS. Administrative punishments for enlisted personnel are routinely posted, ‘pour encourager les autres’. Refusing to specify the nature (not the exact details) of the punishment is an admission that there was no punishment.

    Sarin · December 6, 2023 at 4:13 pm

    I’d wager dollars to doughnuts this squid Medical Officer (double whammy of entitlement there…) got a NPLOC at most.

    If you’re unfamiliar, it’s a Non-Punitive Letter of Caution. In other words a “negative counseling” that stays with that command. Might be a tad different from the Corps, that was how it worked for us.

    -Sarin.

Tim McCann · December 6, 2023 at 8:22 am

When I joined the navy in the late 70’s, I was in the AEF Advanced Electronics Field. Back then you had to have a high ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery ) test score to enter into AEF ratings. Those scores were higher that what it took to become and officer. Our schools, Basic Electronics and the A & C schools would often take several years to complete. We had to enlist for 6 years to compensate for the long school time required. My rating was called “DS” Data Systems Technician, Computers.

Gerry · December 6, 2023 at 9:25 am

” judges who will jail someone for “disrespecting” them by wearing a pair of shorts to court. ”
Sorry to disagree but it’s about respect for the court and justice system.
What would you think if your lawyer came to court in a pair of cut offs and a Home of The Whopper t shirt.
Don’t disagree about officers but by the same token, the captain of ship gets some respect for having that position, even if he is a complete fool. His ass will be ultimately responsible for what happens on the vessel.

    Divemedic · December 6, 2023 at 2:10 pm

    And what law, where in the Constitution does it say that a judge gets to tell me how to dress?
    If my lawyer dresses like that, as his employer, that is between him and me, the judge isn’t a party to our contract.
    Judges aren’t kings. I would agree that they have the power to prevent disruption in the court, but that doesn’t extend to how someone dresses.

      Gerry · December 6, 2023 at 4:18 pm

      Article III, Section 1:

      The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

      The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that federal courts possess inherent authority to punish contempt—i.e., disobedience of a court order or obstruction of justice—and to impose other sanctions on parties or attorneys who engage in misconduct.

      https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S1-4-2/ALDE_00013521/

      More importantly it is about civility and manners.. Two choices; Give respect to person or authority until they show they do not deserve it or do not give respect to anyone or thing till the prove they are worthy of it. I’ll do the former, everyone’s free to choose

        Joe Blow · December 7, 2023 at 6:29 am

        I agree with your position Gerry, but DM is correct.
        Yes, Courts and legal proceedings are supposed to be a fairly formal affair. If it pertains to your personal freedom one would THINK you’d have a vested interest, and do your utmost to tip the scales in your favor. I wear my nice clothes to funerals and church, too, just the way I was raised.
        But people are stupid. You can’t fix stupid.
        Judges/The Court may feel disrespected by plaintiffs appearing before the court in what most would deem in-appropriate attire, but they don’t get to stick you in jail over it!
        I participated in my communities “Youth Court” program and made it to the position of judge. I had one kid standing before me for judgement in terrible clothing. Their parents were in the back of the courtroom, dressed the same. Ripped jeans, dirty Metaillica/Ozzy T-shirts and flip-flops. The officer running the youth-court program filled me in before the trial as to how poor this family was. Those WERE their nicest clothes.
        My opinions and feelings of being disrespected disappeared pretty quick.

        That story aside, your ability to stretch the definition of ‘disobedience’ and ‘misconduct’ deserves merit. Suppose if a Muslim woman were to wear a burkha you’d be OK? Nobody’s wearing a bedsheet in my courtroom! Do Sihk’s have to remove their headdress for the pledge of allegiance? Did the judge do something inappropriate that caused to defendant to not feel respectful? Regardless, a court employee does not posses the authority to jail a freeman over their choice of dress. Period. Get your fucking head around the concept that one’s clothes do not determine their freedom in a free country.
        We have social norms, but you don’t jail people who violate them. No, really, who in the fuck do you think you are, that you can dictate to other people what’s right and wrong? Why does the judge get that right? Hint: He doesn’t, that’s why we have laws – judges are supposed to apply them, they aren’t supposed to interpret them. But like so many people drunk on a smidge of power, they demonstrate why they don’t deserve the very thing they so crave.

        Birdog357 · December 7, 2023 at 7:30 am

        The supreme court also upheld many unconstitutional and downright evil things. They are also judges themselves. Hardly a reliable source of authority…

        Divemedic · December 7, 2023 at 8:43 am

        Yes, the court itself is Constitutional. I don’t see anything in the Constitution, however, granting the court a plenipotentiary power to jail someone for not wearing a suit. Don’t forget that there is also a clause stating that only the Legislature can make law.
        We have somehow forgotten that and granted the courts powers beyond that of what they were originally granted. There was a judge years ago in the Orlando area that made the news because he was eating lunch and was disturbed by a police officer whose radio was, in the judge’s opinion, too loud. He told the cop to turn it off. The cop explained that he needed to hear it in the event of an emergency. So the judge wrote a contempt order and had the police officer thrown in jail for contempt of court.
        No, just no. We can’t allow anyone to grant to themselves that sort of power. Not police, not judges, not even the President. It just shouldn’t work like that.

    EN2 SS · December 6, 2023 at 2:30 pm

    When I first went on the boats(late 60’s), the officers were the best in the Navy. By the time I got out, the scum suckers above LtJg where without fail sorry suck cockers of the first order. So the saying “the captain is ultimately responsible” is wrong if the boat implodes.

    Skyler the Weird · December 6, 2023 at 2:42 pm

    I knew a judge in the Shelby County Criminal court who was such a feminist it was said she’d find you in contempt if you said ma’am instead of Your Honor. I never tried to put her to the test whenever called to verify our ID of a suspect.

Anonymous · December 6, 2023 at 10:26 am

Imagine we had a libertarian society. That would mean nobody could command anyone else. The pecking order would be flat, and nobody could peck (tax, regulate) anyone else. Everyone would be at the bottom of the pecking order (as well as the top). Being at the bottom of a pecking order is dangerous. I think much of the middle class instinct/urge for a government is to construct a pecking order, so most people can avoid being at the bottom of it.

Soon, technological innovation of items of military utility useful to the individual will shift the predator/prey balance of power and produce a libertarian society. Organized crime will cost more than it collects, and will stop. Then I predict a huge freak out of mentally unbalanced people who can’t handle a situation where they cannot beat up on other ethnicities/religions. No, you can’t vote. No, you can’t force your church’s rules onto those others. Imagine a SanFran mostly-naked gay pride parade with live sex acts on the street through a conservative Muslim area, and the paraders are militarily strong enough to hold their ground.

    Divemedic · December 6, 2023 at 2:15 pm

    Hahaha. So you think that, because everyone owns weapons, we will all be on the same playing field? Ridiculous. Mexico Somalia Afghanistan all have weapons. Why aren’t they all libertarian?

      Skyler the Weird · December 6, 2023 at 2:46 pm

      They sound very Libertarian to me. The federal government in none of those countries can tell the citizens what to do. Private citizens in gangs, cartels, and militias tell you what to do.

      Birdog357 · December 7, 2023 at 7:32 am

      Libertarians really should be institutionalized for their own protection. Stupidity of this magnitude should not be allowed out in the world without adult supervision…

        Divemedic · December 7, 2023 at 8:45 am

        It’s the same argument that you get from Communists when their government results in dictatorship- “It WaSn’T ReAl ComMuNIsm”

        Anonymous · December 7, 2023 at 10:29 am

        There are about 3,000 counties in the US. Surely you have the courage of your convictions and could permit 50 counties, one in each state, as a zoo for libertarians to demonstrate by example how it won’t work? Could you cite some of the many historical examples of that ‘war of all against all’ that will occur if all forcing of lifestyle rules onto the innocent is eliminated by effective self-defense?

        Anonymous · December 7, 2023 at 10:35 am

        I heard Quakers in early Pennsylvania couldn’t walk 100 feet down the…well, they didn’t have sidewalks because they didn’t have a government to pave roads, but they couldn’t walk 100 feet through the forest without other Quakers pouncing on them with rocks and clubs and eating them for lunch.

    Anonymous · December 7, 2023 at 3:54 am

    This is just predators vs. prey headcount numbers after changes in technology used by predators and prey. Stronger prey means less predation. Here are some historical examples for Americans: The Articles of Confederation had no penalty for states not paying taxes, so none did. Quakers in early Pennsylvania under Governor Penn were also not paying taxes and not being punished. Suppose the organized criminal protection racket enforcers calling themselves a government show up at your storefront. If there was a button that made these criminals vanish without consequence, most would press it.

Wild, wild west · December 6, 2023 at 11:02 am

“once a person is an enlisted man, they should never be eligible to taint the ranks of officers by becoming one of them”

Yes, sadly that is often the attitude, that and all EM are scum, etc., and policy as well. Lots of people who received battlefield commissions during Viet Nam were sent back to the enlisted ranks if not RIF’d out altogether (reduction in force) when things were winding down and then over. I knew a Captain at Fort Benning in 1972 who had been battlefield commissioned. He was set back to enlisted as a SPECIALIST and was not even allowed the dignity of “hard” strips as some grade of Sergeant. Nothing against the Specialist ranks, but there is a difference. To finish off the hatchet job, they did not transfer him out of the unit, but left him there. That ain’t the way to do things.

I have great respect for Hal Moore but it will ALWAYS be Fort Benning to me.

Another problem I have is the practice of police referring to non-police as “civilians.” If you’re not in the military, you’re a civilian, in my opinion. A cop can always quit whenever he feels like it but when the soldier quits before expiration term of service, that’s desertion.

Lord of the Fleas · December 6, 2023 at 11:52 am

Some of the best officers I served with came from the ranks, largely because they knew what life as enlisted was like. Gave them a better perspective.

If you haven’t read Heinlein’s Starship Trooper, do so. Explains it quite well. (And I do mean the book – forget that bullshit movie.)

LFMayor · December 6, 2023 at 12:16 pm

Could be the poor bastard is the last hetero, non-DEI in the whole damn Navy and he sure as hell didn’t sign on to expose his family to packs of ferals. I thought the rollout of don’t ask don’t tell was utter madness and that’s when I pulled the cork. I sure as hell hope this guy the best, because the witch hunters have him now, the poor bastard.

Skyler the Weird · December 6, 2023 at 2:50 pm

There’s a hierarchy amongst the officers as well. At the top is Service Academy grads. Next is the college kids from ROTC. Lastly is the formerly enlisted guys from OCS. They all get treated differently by the higher ups.

Nemo · December 6, 2023 at 3:00 pm

When I was in boot camp, other recruits, all with college degrees, were assigned as “officers” in our training company. One night after chow, I was called into the recruit officer’s office and accused of cheating on the weekly tests because my test average was higher than the recruit training officer’s average. In fact, my test average was the highest in the company.

My average was high because I listened in class and have almost always enjoyed a near total recall of spoken instruction and conversations.

My punishment for showing up the more highly educated recruits was day time guard duty for the next two weeks which of course lowered my test scores as I couldn’t go to the classes that they gave the tests on. I did study the manual on which classroom instruction was based. However there’s always some “having served” knowledge that was passed along in those classes that some of the test questions were based on, about half of which I got wrong lowering my average.

As to officers, at my permanent duty station, the BOQ was located at the top of a hill above the base. The road going past the BOQ had steep inclines on both sides. Several junior officers, one ensign and two or three Lt. JG.’s were intercepted by the Shore Patrol one night, after a long stay at the O Club bar, racing laundry carts down the steeper incline. Those “officers” all quietly disappeared by month’s end. None of them were in my chain of command, so we never really knew what happened to them.

The Lt JG who was in charge of the maintenance section to which I assigned, a mustang officer, never appeared outside of his office in the almost two years I was there. We all wondered what the heck he did.

Vlad · December 6, 2023 at 3:34 pm

Sun Tzu said if your troops are fuckups, it’s because the commander is a fuckup. Or something along those lines…

I went into public safety instead of the military. I hear constantly about veterans, “They wrote checks up to and including their life.” And I respect that, but so did I for over 31 years running into burning buildings that were most likely *insured*.

Sarin · December 6, 2023 at 6:13 pm

So, I was both enlisted and a Zero (jarhead parlance for an officer).

There is certainly an us vs them mentality within the Corps. “Warrants” (Warrant Officers and Chief Warrant Officers) were considered as being from the “wrong” side of the tracks. Mustangs (starting over as a 2nd Lt) weren’t necessarily shit upon as much as Warrants were since Mustangs went through the Basic Officer Course (BOC) and then The Basic School (TBS). Warrants only go through TBS, and a slightly truncated version, only because they come in with annual training requirements (rifle/pistol, CFT/PFT, swim qual, etc.) already done. It’s shortened by maybe a month or so.

I think the argument in both source articles is specious. Here’s why: I spent a couple of years total as an embarked troop on brown water vessels, plus some other “fun times” on SSBNs. I can’t speak to the Navy’s policies outside of what I personally saw: An EM1 (or any Petty Officer, 1st Class isn’t in charge of shit. Until you hit Chief, you’re just another lackey. That may have changed in the past 6 years; somehow I doubt that. Exceptions: Team guys and Corpsmen.

The Corps’ forces leadership on kids early, particularly in any combat arms MOS. “Whenever there are two Marines together, someone is in charge.” I could go on and on; not that the Corps has a monopoly on good leadership.

Ultimately, I think that the argument by the former Corporal for “abolishing” the divide is rooted in the current wokseterism that’s ongoing.

The defense is pretty clear cut, although I don’t fully agree either.

The origin of DMs post, the Naval Medical Officer, that’s a special case. Probably a boot, probably just spent the past 8+ years of college being told he’s special, along with the obligatory deep throating of the woke agenda. Add in the fact that he probably was Voluntold to “go to Japan” against his and his family wishes. That’s going to lead to any feasible reason to try and claim a hardship to get off the island and to a “respectable post” like Bethesda. Saw it all too often when other Marines would get orders to Okinawa or Japan.

To DMs point, there are shitheads on both sides, Officer and Enlisted. Some of it is antiquated hold-over mentality. Other parts of it are just the way things have to be for a military to function. Good officers realize that their job is really to “protect” their subordinates from dumbassery coming from higher. They should trust and/or develop their subordinates as, in the Corps, you’re only one well-placed round from being in charge.

Most shithead officers see anyone exhibiting any sort of common sense or intelligence as a threat. That’s because they’re leading because of their rank, NOT based on any skills. They’re too proud/egotistical to fathom that they’re not god’s gift to leadership. In the Corps, it’s repeatedly drummed into them that they’re the best and wholly responsible for the success/failure of the unit. They miss a crucial understanding that any success should be enjoyed by the members of the u it, while they alone bear the brunt of failure. That’s why Mustangs, as a group, are generally better officers. Not all are though; I’ve seen/known plenty that once they received a commission treated their enlisted like shit, on purpose.

Enlisted aren’t any better. If they’re not actively trying to sabotage leadership, they’re second guessing and continually back-biting. They resent being told what to do by someone they see as inferior in some aspect (longevity in the service, experience, etc.). Leads to a lack of unit cohesion, which costs lives. Lastly, most enlisted are work-hard, play hard in their mentalities. This doesn’t translate well to the Officer world, based on all of the “unwritten rules” of being a Zero.

Ultimately, I think that there’s a necessary divide; perhaps better screening or a system whereby an officer candidate goes through a year or two as an enlisted person could improve things.

My 2₩

-Sarin

    Sarin · December 6, 2023 at 7:50 pm

    Forgot to mention, the ASVAB, and all enlisted training manuals are based on a 10th grade reading level. Has everything to do with the “lowest tier” recruit eligible for entry into the service. Until that changes, not much will change with the .mil. Given the state of our education system, changing the standards won’t happen. Until the standards are changed, nothing even close to parity will occur. It’s not a perfect system, although the above does explain some of the dumbassery that occurs between the ranks.

Paulb · December 6, 2023 at 8:56 pm

It’s interesting to see the same BS attitude among civilians, in the merchant marine.

There is a clear dichotomy between Academy officers, who went to on of the state maritime academies (with all the mediocrity that an undergraduate state college implies) .
There are also Hawsepipers, merchant marine officers who earned their licenses by working their way up from being an unskilled laborer all the way through every position in the deck or engine room over many years before taking the exact same exams that the academy kids spend 4 years in college to prepare for.
I often get an “Oh…” and awkward silence when I say that I didn’t go to an academy. There is at times an unspoken air of inferiority. If there is snobbery or douchebaggery afoot, I’ll outsnob the snob. Since I already have a graduate education, and not from a state school, lol, I can happily point out that they went to a glorified community college that had recess and story time, without using those exact words, of course.
When I get called on it, I’ll note that I went to a nice university for undergrad, and between fellowships and grad school I did spend time at a state school, briefly, so I get that you make the best of what you have, even if it’s not as academically rigorous as a more traditional education. Men who get the rug pulled out on their assumptions get pretty prickly, lol.
“Bro, no need to be all assmad. You drive a boat. You drive a boat real good. That’s you. I was just noting that I didn’t go to boat-driving school. I was doing something more challenging for me, but I like boats too, and here we are.”

Atziti · December 7, 2023 at 12:23 am

I was the OPTAR manager at a EA-6B squadron for 4 years. I went on nearly evert det my squadron did. I got to see all the BS games the NFO and Navy Pilots did.

For example, in 2005 we did a 4 month “deployment” to MCAS Iwakuni, and for weeks before we left we were all lectured about liberty in 7th Fleet. What happens within 2 weeks of main body arriving? Our Maintenance Officer (LCDR) decides to get in a fist fight with a Marine gate guard. His punishment? Punitive LOR. He was a pilot, and could not be sent home, because Prowler squadrons only had 7 pilots for 4 jets.

Any delusions I had about officers being “better” than enlisted did not survive that tour. They do the same stupid shit enlisted do, they just hide it better.

    Jim · December 8, 2023 at 12:42 am

    USMC EA-6B crashed onboard USS Nimitz 1981. You can see from this report that Big Navy initially
    blamed enlisted men working on the flight deck for the crash.
    https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/77226

georgiaboy61 · December 7, 2023 at 12:26 am

I am not ex-military, but I know a lot of folks who are… and I even know the retort to the question “Were you an officer in the military?” Which is, “No, I worked for a living…” followed by an explanation that you were an EM.

No one asked me, but if I was suddenly put into a position to make policy, I’d henceforth decree that no one could become an officer without first being an enlisted man. I’d do the same to medical schools, too: No M.D. until you’ve been a nurse or paramedic first.

Getting back to the military, I know a number of ring-knockers from Annapolis or West Point, etc. ~ and they are nothing special, at least not any more.

The service academies were infiltrated by the cultural marxists decades ago, and are now nothing more than civilian diploma mills with a fancy pedigree, living off the glories of the past. Big whoop. If I was a grunt, I wouldn’t follow most of those clowns across the street, let along into battle.

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