Anti American left

Florida Legislature Leaves a Mess

As a follow up to yesterday’s post on hospitals and businesses prohibiting carry in the wake of the new constitutional carry law that went into effect in Florida on Saturday, we will address the next two claims:

  • Concealed carry isn’t allowed in police stations, and our hospital contains a “police substation”
  • Concealed carry isn’t allowed in hospitals

First, let’s look at the claim that concealed carry isn’t permitted in hospitals. There are two laws that can be applied here, with the first of them being 394.458:

Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

Note that this is uncharted territory. The law as it existed in 2022 specifically says “except as authorized by law” and Florida’s 790.06 does authorize one to carry a concealed weapon, and paragraph (12) gives a specific list of places off limits to carry. The addition of constitutional carry (PDF alert) also states that a person who is otherwise qualified for a permit may carry a weapon under the same conditions as a person with a permit.

The problem here is that one could make the argument that 790.06 authorizes (by law) carry in places except those listed in 790.06(12), and 790.06(15)(c) specifically says:

This section does not modify the terms or conditions of s. 790.251(7).

Meaning that the legislature means for this law to supersede others in restricting carry at certain locations, and when they don’t want it to do so, make it clear in the statute. The issue with this argument is that it can only be made in court after you have been arrested. Since no one has yet done so (as evidenced by the fact that there is no case law spelling out the limits here) this is an issue that has not yet been tested in the courts, so you do so at your own peril.

What is interesting is the second law that affects hospitals: 790.145. That law specifically says:

Unless otherwise provided by law, any person who is in possession of a concealed “firearm,” as defined in s. 790.001(6), or a “destructive device,” as defined in s. 790.001(4), within the premises of a “pharmacy,” as defined in chapter 465, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(2) The provisions of this section do not apply:
(a) To any law enforcement officer;
(b) To any person employed and authorized by the owner, operator, or manager of a pharmacy to carry a firearm or destructive device on such premises; or
(c) To any person licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Since a person who is carrying without a permit under Florida’s constitutional carry law -IS- carrying without a permit, and most hospitals are or contain pharmacies, is it still illegal for a person who is otherwise legally carrying a concealed weapon without a permit to have a firearm while inside of a pharmacy? Is this one of those cases that I mentioned above, where the legislature exempts a law when it intends to? Or has the legislature left a legal mess that the courts will have to deal with later? In my opinion, this is another case where the law is confusing and unclear, and the courts will have to deal with it after someone is arrested and charged with the crime, whereupon his lawyer will have to make this argument.

So to sum up the answer to the claim that you can’t carry in a hospital in Florida: The answer is maybe. It is specifically illegal to carry a firearm into a hospital or pharmacy in Florida, but not if you are authorized by law to do so. The law is unclear on whether or not people can carry into a hospital, or whether those who are carrying under constitutional carry may do so into a pharmacy. This question will not be cleared up unless the legislature cleans up the law, or until the courts rule on this one way or the other.

The legal issues here are quite a mess, and the only people who benefit from what the legislature has done here will be lawyers and those who write books about what the law means (in many cases, lawyers who are also authors). It will be interesting to see Jon Gutmacher’s take on this when my copy of Florida Firearms book gets here later in the week. That book is the bible for those who carry or use firearms in Florida, and there are more than a few judges who have his books on their bookshelf. If you own or carry a firearm in Florida, you should have a copy of it.

We will address the last of the three claims tomorrow when we look at “Concealed carry isn’t allowed in police stations, and our hospital contains a ‘police substation'” I think that this post is long enough already.

Now, the disclaimer: I don’t advertise, and receive nothing for my reviews or articles. I have no relationship with any products, companies, or vendors that I review here, other than being a customer. If I ever *DO* have a financial interest, I will disclose it. Otherwise, I pay what you would pay. No discounts or other incentives here. I only post these things because I think that my readers would be interested.

In this case, I have had a relationship with the author of the book that I mention in this post. You can read about it here. I wrote an email to Mr. Gutmacher at the time, letting him know that the property records of Florida showed that the property licensed for explosives manufacture and the resorts were two different pieces of property, as they must be, because under the fire code, you can’t have a hotel on the same property with an explosives factory. He was interested in my point, but I don’t know if he made that point in his legal case or not.

I do not make any money from the book, or from Mr. Gutmacher, but I still want to disclose the relationship, however tenuous it was.

By Divemedic, ago

Cops Are Lying in Florida

I was at work last night and the supervisor of security came wandering through the ED. One of the nurses asked him if Florida’s new concealed carry law was going to make his job more difficult. His reply was that many people in Florida don’t realize that concealed carry doesn’t apply to the hospital. When I asked him why the law didn’t apply, his reply was that there were three reasons:

  • Concealed carry isn’t allowed on private property in Florida, unless the owner allows it
  • Concealed carry isn’t allowed in police stations, and our hospital contains a “police substation”
  • Concealed carry isn’t allowed in hospitals

When I told him that most of those statements weren’t what the law says, he told me that he and the police likely know more about the law than I do, so I should just stay in my lane. Let’s tackle his claims one at a time, with this post addressing the “property owner” argument:

The police are the ones circulating the “carry isn’t allowed on private property” trope, and I am not sure where it’s coming from. I searched the social media pages of every sheriff’s office in central Florida, along with a sampling of city police departments. This is what I found:

Hillsboro County and Tampa Police
Lake County Sheriff
Columbia County Sheriff’s Office
Sarasota Police

It’s being pushed by a fair number of law enforcement agencies all over the state. The problem here is that the law says nothing of the sort. The new law says that a person who doesn’t have a permit but would otherwise be eligible for one may still carry a concealed weapon or firearm wherever they could carry that weapon if the DID have a permit. There is a list of places off limits to carry that can be found in 790.06(12). Property owners prohibiting carry is not anywhere on that list.

The only statement that could be construed as allowing a property owner to prohibit carry is the general property rights that any property owner has. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law as being prohibited for concealed carry, but it has posted “no guns” signs, and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave, but that is different from claiming that the “law doesn’t apply” to private property. If they don’t ask you to leave, it is legal to carry right past a “no guns” sign.

Since this is being widely pushed by some (but no all) police agencies all over the state, I can’t help by believe that this is an intentional misstatement by law enforcement to enforce a law that doesn’t exist.

Next, we will take a look at carry in hospitals and police stations.

By Divemedic, ago

Wrong

When I was a teacher, I layered the security for my classroom and my students. First, I installed a Nightlock on my door.

I have Level IV body armor that I kept in my classroom. It had a blowout kit, 4 TQ’s, a huge label on it that said “PARAMEDIC” and a sewn on badge with my blood type. The file cabinet between the door and the blind corner where I planned to shelter my students in the event of a shooter had been modified by me. It has a 1/4″ aluminum plate lining the inside of the sides of the cabinet. With us behind the cabinet, the bullet would have to go through the cabinet, through the first plate, through whatever was in the cabinet, then through the second plate, and the backside of the cabinet.

Dude, use your head.

By Divemedic, ago

Cops Are Not Referees

Too many people think that calling the police is the adult equivalent of telling your mom that someone is being mean to you. This guy had a black man approach him with a knife, and while brandishing it, scream “Die!”

So the man called the cops. The cops arrive and arrest him, so the caller begins sobbing because he didn’t want the black suspect to think he was a racist. Holy shit.

By Divemedic, ago

Senator Terrorist

Have you heard about the Rhode Island state senator that physically attacks people and destroys their property for exercising their right to free speech? No? Well, whatever you do, don’t have a bumper sticker on your car that supports RKBA or opposes Joe Biden.

He keyed a person’s car for having a bumper sticker that said “Biden Sucks” then when the police arrived, he tried to avoid capture by changing his appearance.

This isn’t the first time that he has shown contempt for the rights of his constituents. In 2014, Miller was caught on video at the Rhode Island State House telling a Second Amendment supporter “go fuck yourself.” He then released a statement explaining his actions:

Last Tuesday a vast group of Rhode Islanders gathered peacefully in the State House rotunda to voice their concerns about gun violence in our state and in our country. They also gathered to support sensible gun legislation that would ban the sale of assault weapons, ban the sale of high capacity magazines, ban weapons on school grounds and deny firearm access to individuals who have been convicted of domestic violence misdemeanors.

At the end of a press conference in which I participated, an individual representing a website notorious for conspiracy theories started berating members of the coalition and intimidating elderly veterans, members of the clergy and victims of violence.

It quickly became a highly charged atmosphere, which required the presence of the Capitol Police. The individual in question is not new to the State House and is known for his aggressive and intimidating manner. He also was interrupting legitimate members of the media who were attempting to conduct interviews.

After watching him antagonize an elderly veteran he swung his camera my way, which produced a very human and guttural reaction. I respect both the Second Amendment and the First Amendment. It is important to note that the individual in question was physically removed from a committee room by the Capitol Police later that evening.

Regardless of the emotions and atmosphere of the moment, it does not justify the language I used that day. Out of respect for the decorum of the State House and the constituents I represent, I offer my apologies.

You get his attitude? A website with which he disagrees asks questions, and they are accused of being intimidating and pushing conspiracy theories, as compared to those media outlets that treat him with kid gloves, who are referred to as “legitimate members of media.” He is the arbiter of what is and is not allowed, and anyone who disagrees will be attacked.

I will cheer for any person that fucks him up, and I will donate to their legal defense fund. We all know that this is the only way that this authoritarian tyrant will see justice, because this arrest won’t lead to him seeing a prison cell.

By Divemedic, ago

Random Thought on the Second Amendment

The argument that the 2A is only for the militia is still being pushed by the anti-forces, even in light of Heller. If they won’t believe SCOTUS, perhaps they can believe the version of the 2A that was originally passed by the House of Representatives on August 24, 1789:

A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the People, being the best security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.

Note that being a member of the Militia didn’t require that a person be a member of an exclusive, limited membership military. It merely required that you be a part of the body of the people.

By Divemedic, ago

Great Quote

Of course Joe Biden is not a wannabe dictator. Just because he’s trying to put the other candidate in prison for the rest of his life for a crime he himself committed doesn’t mean he has a totalitarian impulse- come on that’s absurd.

It takes a lot more than jailing your political rivals to earn the title “wannabe dictator”- that’s the consensus in Washington tonight- and in some ways for once the consensus may be right. It is not a small thing to be a wannabe dictator. It’s quite a process, there are a lot of steps.

First off there is the money – the one thing that all dictators have in common is they enrich themselves and their families – their tribe – even as the country they govern grows steadily poorer and more desperate. They take kickbacks from businesses and from other dictators, they use the official functions of their government to funnel cash to themselves, they don’t bother to hide the fruits of this, they live in garish mansions with big lawns, far from the teeming cities, even as their own citizens languish in growing poverty, in some cases literally living in tents on the street.

So they don’t really hide it – it’s all pretty blatant and ordinary people resent it, of course they do, and wannabe dictators know they resent it, but they don’t care. There’s nothing the population can do about it in a dictatorship- it’s no longer possible to fight injustice in a system like that.

People can’t gather in large numbers to protest the rule of the dictator.

If they try that, they’ll be arrested by a state security services, even years after the fact a visit from men in body armor at the breakfast table- that happens. And if citizens persist in believing they can gather in groups to protest they may be shot to death a bullet to the throat. And then, just to make the humiliation complete, to make the lesson gin clear to everyone else watching, their relatives can be arrested for daring to complain that their children were killed for complaining.

That actually happens in some places- ask Ashli Babbitt’s mother. Here she is in handcuffs. ‘So don’t be like Ashli Babbitt’s mother, much less like poor Ashley Babbitt, she’s dead now,’ that’s the message a wannabe dictator would send- and by the way it’s not just public protest that would be banned in a dictatorship, you wouldn’t be allowed to complain from your own home.

Unauthorized opinions expressed on the internet would be censored. Go too far, press too deep, tell too much truth, and they’ll just erase your opinions. They have no choice, really, it’s a matter as they say, of trust and safety, you must trust the leader, or else you will jeopardize his safety, not that you really CAN jeopardize his safety at this point, the leader has nuclear weapons, and you don’t- he’ll remind you of that from time to time.

Tucker Carlson on Twitter

Then he goes on to talk about RKBA. Tucker needs to watch his back, or he will be the next one to disappear into the Gulag. You can watch the entire thing here- it’s pure gold.

By Divemedic, ago

Here They Come

Seeing as how I was the subject of recent leftist threats and attempts to shut me up, I can understand how the owner of Fenix Ammunition feels in this case:

Like him, I was threatened with cancellation, doxing, and even violence. The left is becoming bolder and more violent as time goes on. Yes, I think that the violence has escalated to a different level- rioting is not the same thing as the targeted violence that threats that we are seeing now.

We are edging closer and closer to the conflict in this country going from threats, posturing, and a few minor skirmishes to the actual initiation of hostilities. So far, the violence has mostly been one sided. I fear that it may not remain so. The coming conflict will be truly horrific.

In this case, morons are picking a fight with a guy who owns a pile of guns and a literal ammunition factory, which he opened because it was cheaper to make his own ammo to compete in marksmanship competitions. He regularly posts videos of himself shooting all sorts of NFA weapons at ranges of several hundred yards.

By Divemedic, ago