My post on less lethal got a few chest thumping answers that seemed to indicate some people not seeing a use for less lethal alternatives. I disagree. There are times when it isn’t legal to have a firearm on you. The post office, a school, polling places, a bar, etc.. Florida law has more than a few places where you can’t have a firearm.

There are times when the use of lethal force isn’t justified and will get your ass chucked in jail.

Now consider the weapon that I posted about. It isn’t legally a firearm. It isn’t legally a chemical defense spray. I am not sure that it would legally be considered a weapon at all. There are times when your choices of defense devices are extremely limited. There are more than a few places where I am legally reduced to carrying pepper spray, which has its own limitations and issues.

I am thinking that it may just give me options.

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joe · February 12, 2022 at 6:19 am

if you end up getting one, remember that in the winter you have to shoot at the ground to break the capsules… if they are wearing a jacket, especially a heavy jacket you lose the “impact” part and they won’t break… you also need to know which way the wind is blowing…

Steven · February 12, 2022 at 8:48 am

I do not have any training or experience with pepper ball launchers, but I do have training and experience with the Taser.
It works and works well, with some limitations. I use and advise using the X26. Tried and true.

why · February 12, 2022 at 9:59 am

Know a guy that has a marine flare pistol (25 mm?) in his vehicle. It was orange but he used a black sharpie to change the color. He’s had to justify to LE a couple of times and tells them he’s with FD and “uses it to mark location for air medical.”

I’ve seen it from the business end….BIG BLACK HOLE. He says he’s used it a couple of times in road-rage incidents with each resolving peacefully….something about them looking down that BIG BLACK HOLE….

    joe · February 12, 2022 at 10:27 am

    i carry a judge in the car…you will eat some defensive .410 if you try to car jack me…


    everything has a plus and minus…the pepperball has a place and use…taser has a place and use…firearm has place and use…all of these may not stop a determined attacker until they inflicted harm or future death before stopping them…i carry a gun, cuffs, boot knife…i gave up on sprays because i’ve never seen them work right…they piss dogs off, if the person is high or drunk it rarely works on them and 99% of the time you end up inhaling it…pepperballs are no different…pepperball is really a 1-2 punch…you have the impact and then the powder…the powder needs to be pava/and or some cs if you really want it too work…you won’t get the impact if they are wearing heavy or loose clothing…taser won’t work if they are wearing a heavy jacket or baggy sweatshirt…bullets go through all of that but may lose some penetration depending on caliber and earths rotation and moon phase…it’s all a crap shoot…i get the part where it may not be considered a weapon and can carry it in places you can’t carry your gun but a knife would work also…don’t let the website for that toy lie to you…the pistol versions don’t have a whole lot of punch and they are accurate to maybe 20-25 yards…anything past that is luck…you can watch the rounds go down range so they ain’t moving that fast…

    Russell G. · February 13, 2022 at 2:22 pm

    There’s a whopping charge in those. YouTube has some videos launching way out there from a 12ga shotgun. The metal slug that carries the payload also melts, yes melts with molten metal, as it burns. Note that “marine” part–made to be fired over water. In Florida, there would eventually be a charge of “incendiary device”, just like tracers.

    No–The guy is a fool for even thinking about that. We have no shortage of them walking around. Get a 40mm M203 TagInn 4.5sec airsoft shell if you want to play stupid games. And, yes, you can get a stand-alone pistol grip with rail for a M203 airsoft rig.

    Divemedic · February 17, 2022 at 12:37 pm

    As soon as you use it against people, it becomes an NFA weapon. Just like using a 37mm flare launcher. Use it to shoot something like a starburst shell into someone’s window, and it is now a destructive device. You now have an unregistered DD.

Steve · February 12, 2022 at 11:38 am

It’s a good idea to always have LTL on you, and very handy. If you have to escalate to lethal, it adds credence to your position that with the particulars of the situation you were in, LTL simply was not an option.

Plague Monk · February 12, 2022 at 11:58 am

I worked as a driver for the Dominate Pizza location in Auburn, NY, back around 2005. The managers were very woke, and totally forbade any firearms in either the car or on the person. They also didn’t want us to carry Mace, and one of them harassed me about my Swiss Army Knife. I told him that I had taken that knife into some highly classified engineering offices, and that a piddly a$$ pizza shop was nothing.
Drivers were getting robbed, so I came up with an alternative: Hornet Spray. I had the can on the front seat next to me, covered by a towel, but easily reachable in the event of a two legged yellow jacket deciding to try to rob me. The manager freaked out about this, but I told him that I am allergic to yellow jacket stings, and would he sign a form stating that he and the other manager would be personally responsible if I got stung while making deliveries?
I never got attacked, but one driver for another pizza shop did, and he used hornet spray to blind his assailant. He paid for a pizza lunch for me after the incident as a thank you. (Indy shop, much better pizza than Dominate)

Michael · February 12, 2022 at 5:48 pm

I’ve used my driver’s side fire extinguisher on a hothead. Put his “Fire” out and when I called 911 the Police were joking about it as EMS took him to the hospital. A face full of dry fire extinguisher will require a trip to the hospital.

If you happen to have a baseball bat in the car, having a glove and actual local baseball team street credit was VERY Handy when I had to solar plexus an asshat one day in Walmart parking lot. Worked for me but I live in a sensible New England State. My appearance in the courtroom was almost 10 minutes as I had some of my baseball buddies with me, before I was dismissed.

AC47spooky · February 12, 2022 at 6:17 pm

If I have a tomahawk on me, a situation could go either way. It could be “less than lethal” or it could be quite lethal.

Actually same goes for a large knife or dagger.

Don Shift · February 12, 2022 at 8:43 pm

Man, you should see the arguments I get when I tell people 12ga less lethal has a place in SHTF. Not a big one but a place. You’d think they’d lunch me over the article. Just f—ing shoot everybody isn’t always the answer. BZ DiveMedic

WallPhone · February 13, 2022 at 4:58 pm

My area, the carry permit only allows carry of a firearm. Nearby district courts have struck down taser bans as unconstitutional, but they (and a laundry list of other weapons) are still on the books as banned.

SH · February 15, 2022 at 10:27 am

Here is a link to a TFB tv video on the topic you may find interesting:

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