My regulars know that I am not a fan of libertarians. To understand why, read on:
We Jews thought we were safe in America. I no longer feel that with so many mobs on the streets openly calling for the mass slaughter of Jews.
— Amy Alkon (@amyalkon) November 11, 2023
Here in Venice, we just had these terrorism-loving monsters shouting for the slaughter of all Jews — and note the "from the river to… pic.twitter.com/KrR6P9O6wc
This was my reply:
No, but they did leave you defenseless to face that mob without the most effective tools for defending yourself from that mob. So if you voted for the politicians who passed gun control, you are getting exactly what you voted for.
Like liberals, socialists, anarchists, and communists, the libertarians believe in the theory that everyone is good and will always act with kindness and fairness towards their fellow man, even with a complete absence of government.
In theory, if humans were innately good we wouldn’t need governments, laws or religions to keep people in line. That’s the core of those belief systems.
That is, at best, wishful thinking. To quote agent K from Men in Black:
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
To espouse a political theory that relies on anything else is to engage in magical thinking. One might as well believe in the tooth fairy. People are illogical beings motivated by selfish, basic emotion and will kill you if they believe it will give them whatever it is that they want. As the US collapses, people will become more dangerous, especially if they believe that you are the key to getting whatever it is that they want.
21 Comments
D · November 12, 2023 at 12:16 pm
I’m not a fan of people who like chocolate. You know why? Hitler liked chocolate. If you love chocolate, you obviously want to kill all the Jews…right?
There are no “gatekeepers”. Anyone can call themselves anything they want now-a-days.
I could call myself a Republican and a follower of Jesus…then go out and rape women and murder children. Does that mean *all* Republicans and *all* Christians are horrible murderers? No. Stop letting crazy people define what everyone else allegedly believes.
You’re attacking a strawman.
I consider myself fairly libertarian. I don’t think government (or anyone for that matter) should be using violence or coercion against others when no one has been harmed and no rights have been violated. I also believe that self defense is an right. But I’ll piss off a lot of Libertarians when I say that spanking a child is appropriate in certain circumstances. They’ll scream that makes me “not a real libertarian”. Meh. Ok. My political and personal beliefs aren’t tied in lock-step to whatever some political party decides to vote on or post on a website or how many likes something gets on Facebook.
I’d bet there are a lot of people who frequent your site that would agree with what I just said about government intervention and raising children…at least at face value…but when the rubber meets the road, they’ll cave. For example, I don’t think cops should be pulling people over for speeding. No one was harmed and no rights were violated. But the moment a speeder plows into a minivan with my wife and kids, the full force of the courts should be brought to bear against the person that harmed others. But plenty of Republicans and Democrats cheer on the police when they end up shooting someone who resists a bullshit traffic stop.
Believe what you want about libertarians, or republicans, or democrats. It doesn’t hurt me. But there are plenty from every group that go against what most people would say is “typical”. I know democrats that carry guns and believe in the second amendment. I know republicans that have had abortions. I know libertarians that think government should be involved when they think animals are being mistreated.
Meh.
Divemedic · November 12, 2023 at 12:48 pm
They’ll scream that makes me “not a real libertarian”.
Exactly my point. The basis of the libertarian belief system is that we don’t need government because people will inherently respect one another and their rights.
D · November 12, 2023 at 3:06 pm
Heh. I present the term “RINO” as exhibit A.
He’s not a “real” Republican.
Every group does it.
But I would disagree on the characterization of the libertarian belief system. Sure, a lot of them believe that government shouldn’t exist at all, period. But there are quite a few that believe the only time anyone can intervene and use force against another (including government) is *when* rights have been violated….so if someone doesn’t respect my rights and decides to violate them…well…government *should* be involved to deal with the “bad guy”, or I should be allowed to deal with the bad guy on my own…otherwise you end up with what you posted here: https://areaocho.com/they-used-to-lynch-horse-thieves/
Divemedic · November 12, 2023 at 3:15 pm
If you pay attention, you will know I don’t like any of our current political parties.
The Democrats are gun banning commies. I will NEVER vote for one.
Republicans are opportunistic crooks lusting for power. I don’t trust them.
The Libertarians are a mix of disaffected dreamers and who think they can fix everything, if only they can pass the libertarian purity test. Their candidates aren’t above a little grifting themselves, but don’t have enough votes to get the big corporate sponsors.
D · November 13, 2023 at 9:36 am
I can’t say I disagree with that statement.
It’s why I haven’t voted since I was ~19 years old…except for 2008 when Ron Paul ran. Too difficult to find a candidate with a spine who is willing to stand up and fight for the Constitution and the American people.
My favorite drinking game is to listen to political speeches. Drink every time a politician says something along the lines of “My number one priority is…” or “My job is…”….and they don’t finish the sentence with “…to uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution for these united States of America”.
EN2 SS · November 13, 2023 at 12:49 pm
Don’t vote? Don’t complain, you get what you don’t want.
Divemedic · November 13, 2023 at 1:15 pm
What if no one who is on the ballot is what you want and no matter who you vote for, the result is that you get what you don’t want? Can you complain then that you had the choice between a despot and a tyrant, and the one you finally voted for was the one who won?
Steve · November 13, 2023 at 1:52 pm
To expand on your point, a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil. And whoever is elected will take it as “A mandate from the people” to perform evil, since they have “the voter’s mandate”.
There have been elections where I didn’t vote, because I didn’t want my vote to be counted as approval of the politician who got into office, and as assenting to their evil. I *knew* that either choice would actively work for the destruction of me & mine.
Assenting to lies is to in some small way to become evil oneself, and I refused to participate in that by voting.
Aesop · November 12, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Anybody want to bet cash money that if I toddle over to the L.A. County Registrar Of Voters Monday and run a check on her I find out she’s actually a registered Democrat talking out of her @$$ online?
Fallen is Babylon · November 12, 2023 at 1:04 pm
Now you know how certain soft weenie whites feel Hymie.
John Lennon-Imagine hippy dippy horseshit is gone.
Good, good.
Francis W. Porretto · November 12, 2023 at 4:51 pm
First: I’m a libertarian. Not all of us believe that people are inherently good. Otherwise we wouldn’t be so strident about the right to keep and bear arms. Consider yourself enlightened.
Second: Amy Alkon, who used to style herself “Advice Goddess” and “bright” specifically because she’s an atheist, is rather difficult to reason with. You might want to spare yourself the effort.
Third: “People are illogical beings motivated by selfish, basic emotion and will kill you if they believe it will give them whatever it is that they want.” Some, perhaps. Not all, and — thank God — they’re probably a small minority of Americans, though they’re more common than before these days of Muslim and illegal immigration. Else there would be no trace remaining of our previous high-trust society…and there’s plenty, if you know where to look. You might want to elevate your sights.
Have a nice life.
Divemedic · November 12, 2023 at 9:45 pm
This discussion isn’t meant to be, nor is it personal. When we are discussing PEOPLE, not a person, we talk in generalities. I was once like you and believed that libertarianism was the best political stance. The problem is that there is a difference between libertarian principles and the (big L) Libertarian party.
The Libertarian party’s biggest problem is one that the Republicans have, but 100 times worse. The party tries to be a large tent, and there are all sorts of people in there. The net result is that the Big L party can’t possibly get anything done. The basis of the big L idea is that people don’t need government because they are good and moral people.
People will lie, cheat, and steal if they can get away with it to get what they want. Then they will rationalize about how what they did was moral and necessary, and besides, the person that they did it to had it coming. Now- they may not do it themselves because they don’t have the guts- but remember that, during COVID, there were a lot of people advocating for those who refused to be quarantined or vaccinated to be put in prison or killed outright.
I learned this through personal experience by watching the absolute inhumanity of people acting against their fellow man. I have made a life watching people do the most despicable things to others because they found a way to rationalize it to themselves. I was a witness in a murder case of a man who killed his own father to cover a theft of $5,000. I watched a woman kill herself and her four children to get revenge on her estranged husband.
Just two weeks ago, I was there when a woman shot her boyfriend 5 times then tried to kill herself. The week before, I watched a cop use his Taser to torture a shackled prisoner.
People are difficult to trust, and the only thing that you can do is trust a few selected individuals. Even then, some of them will betray you, because no one can betray you unless they are trusted. Consider yourself fortunate for not having to see what I have seen.
Individual persons are flawed and can’t be trusted with power. The founders knew this, and that is how and why we got COTUS. It dilutes power, and keeps the government small and limited. That’s what makes our Constitution such a special document.
Mike in Canada · November 13, 2023 at 7:53 am
Consensus is impossible when everyone arrives at similar conclusions at different times. This is the primary reason why large groups of like-minded people cannot ever get anything done. Too often, the forms are in endless dispute, while the themes remain unchallenged.
It’s even worse when the players are deliberate in their disagreement; witness the UN.
Small communities are the answer. I don’t want a big tent; I want a tent that agrees and can get to the work without endless argument about what a particular Scripture actually means (or about the differences between people that favour .45ACP and those other morons that tote 9mm).
We’re not gonna make it, are we?
Divemedic · November 13, 2023 at 10:33 am
No, I don’t think that we will make it, and I think that the seeds of failure were planted during the Civil War. Slavery may have been a stated reason for the North’s antagonism, it may have been an excuse, or it could be revisionism. No, the reasons for the Civil War were mostly the Northern states enacting punishing taxes and trade terms upon the south. Regardless of the reason, the southern states responded by seceding- which I believe was reasonable. I don’t think that Virginia would have signed COTUS if they had believed that the union was irrevocable.
Even so, before the war, we were a union of individual states. If you had asked someone where they were from, they would have responded with “I am a Virginian,” or “I am a Pennsylvanian.” Now when you ask, they are American. No country or people can long be forged together using the use or threat of force. That’s why forced integration has failed so spectacularly. It’s one of the reasons why the Soviet Union failed. There are just too many differences. The same will eventually happen to the USA. It’s inevitable.
The government that works the best is the one that represents people who are fairly uniform in belief and customs- the founders knew this, which is why states were initially small and were the dominant government before the Civil war.
Oh, and even though I carry a 9mm, I also own pistols of the other major defense calibers, including the old codger caliber of .45ACP.
Scarecrow · November 12, 2023 at 8:58 pm
Wow, this was going to be off the cuff but then i saw the other commenters….
As a Christian, part of what i believe in/understand to be true is the Complete Depravity of Man. Not that every action of ours is as evil as it could be but that none are completely pure. It also means that Morality must be taught, and at a young age, and that if we are not raised in the Way of Righteousness then we will revert to our basic “instincts”. What are those? The drive to satisfy whatever desire grips oneself at the moment, consequences be damned. How do i know that is our “basic instinct”? What toddler ever had to be taught how to throw a tantrum? We are all sinners. John3:16
Anonymous · November 13, 2023 at 1:07 am
I think you’re confusing libertarians with pacifists, and with the Libertarian(TM) national political party. The amount of power politicians get from voters participating in their system is larger than the amount of power which can be reduced by voting for any of the offered choices. A vote is like a $25 pledge for PBS; it’s not enough to matter itself, what the transaction does is keep the voter invested in the outcome. The vote affects the voter; it does not affect the political class as a whole. If a libertarian votes, it’s from the rooftops.
Skyler the Weird · November 13, 2023 at 7:35 am
Those leftists marching in her neighborhood are good Democratic voters. The Communist became Democrats in 1972.
Anonymous · November 13, 2023 at 9:53 am
Government founding documents and claimed principles are just eyewash, and government size and intrusiveness increases exponentially until incompetent elites cause hyperinflation and collapse.
Belief that meth or government will make your life better does not make it true. COTUS concentrates power. The only thing that kept government in North America smaller for a time was that taxpayers were poor.
Divemedic · November 13, 2023 at 10:47 am
I disagree. What kept the government small was that the government was kept poor, not the people. It wasn’t until the 16th Amendment was passed that the government got access to effectively unlimited funding.
Prior to 1913, Federal government spending was less than 3% of GDP. The 16th passed in 1913, and by 1940, the US was spending more than 10 percent of GDP. During WW2, it rose to 42% of GDP, and for the past decade has run between 19 and 31 percent of GDP. That doesn’t include state spending, by the way.
Even that wasn’t enough, which is why we had to be taken off the gold standard for them to gain more power. Now they have destroyed the nation, and it will be us and our posterity that pay the price for that.
Bear Claw · November 13, 2023 at 3:10 pm
Sorry but that story made me laugh
TheLastOfTheAmericans · November 13, 2023 at 3:20 pm
I went through my libertarian phase. Call it two years or so of my life where I had my head up my ass but I was running on pure idealism and youth.
Libertarians are anarchists. That’s all it really boils down to. Chaos. There is no order in a libertarian utopia unless there is some kind of underlying order, meaning a racially homogenous and financially flat country with some kind of rich history and cohesion. You could pull it off in a country that has no immigration and a citizenry that agrees on everything. Where has that ever happened in world history?
Yeah, wouldn’t work here LibBroDudes. Libertarianism is a circle jerk that actually gives Woke a run for it’s money on the level of self delusion it takes to support it. That woman is up there with the other cuter redhead from the Tim Pool show. Psuedo-intellectual females who get attention because they are totally cool hip legit Anarchists…err I mean Libertarians: and you know, the founders were totally Libertarians too so aren’t they so cool?! It’s virtue signaling to the right while espousing leftist talking points. It’s really odd.
(Aside: The funniest line from Libertarians is that everybody should get guns and there should be no gun laws because crime will immediately stop. So the inner city low IQ youths and massive waves of Islamic\African immigrants should have easy access to machine guns? Uh huh…it’s probably time to give up on your low brow political ideologies.)
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