Looking at my next rifle upgrade. I am thinking about an AR10 with this scope on it. I would like to be able to hit a 10″ circle consistently from 500 yards or more with factory ammo. My last AR10 project resulted in what I call a lightweight skirmish rifle. This rifle shoots 4″ groups at 100 yards with factory ammo.
This time I want something that can get reliable, accurate hits from distance while still being something that you can carry in the field. I need to double the accuracy with this new build, meaning 2″ groups at 100 yards, to get 10″ at 500 yards.
Opinions? Thoughts?
47 Comments
It's just Boris · October 11, 2023 at 9:59 am
Nice scope but I’d buy directly from Primary Arms, not Amazon. (I think they still offer a free mount with scope.purchaee. More relevantly, less chance.of getting a used/returned instead of new.)
Caliber? AR10 implies .308 but there are other options once you go to the large frame.
Divemedic · October 11, 2023 at 10:19 am
.308
Jonesy · October 11, 2023 at 12:57 pm
PA makes pretty good stuff. I have several of their products, including a 2-10x paired on a M1A, and one of their micro prisms.
Your stated accuracy goals have less to do with the scope, and more to do with individual skill and the quality of the platform. AR10 implies (not always) that you are getting a 16″bbl. You can get the desired accuracy out of a 16″, but you might want to get a longer bbl, like an 18″ or 20″. Like a DMR type setup. And consider the brand. If you go cheap, don’t expect performance you didn’t pay for.
It's just Boris · October 11, 2023 at 1:19 pm
I guess if it were me I’d be looking at Criterion’s 18″ hybrid barrel, or Faxon’s 18″ Big Gunner. The Faxon is about half a pound lighter and around $100 less; but my impression is that Criterion is more highly regarded.
In any case please post details of your build when it’s done.
joe · October 11, 2023 at 6:57 pm
the glx have better glass but are more expensive…we had their silver, gold, and platinum (i think) scopes to demo…the slx aren’t bad but the glx is better…just fyi…
Ed McLeod · October 13, 2023 at 2:57 pm
“large frame” 7.62×51, .243, .358 are all “medium” frame cartridges. Large frame would be the AR-8 (.30-06, .270, et al.)
Joe Blow · October 11, 2023 at 10:19 am
When I got my first AR, someone told me buy 1 box of every ammo you can find, a stack of targets, and spend an afternoon at the range. You will find your rifle ‘likes’ one of them (maybe 2 or 3). Focus on that ammo, and make it be the best you can be.
Or you can hand-load.
Short version of the conversation was there’s a million different variables, it’s kind of impossible to ‘know’ what ammo to buy for your rifle, and if you don’t try them all, you might miss something that just clicks with that combination of features. I have an Anderson Mfg with a long barrel that LOVES the Wolf .223 62gr. My Sig M400 does not care for russian ammo at all. I’m in the process of trying to find 1 round for 2 rifles (I have a new-to-me mini14 as well), hoping for a compromise to 200 yds. The Long-barrel on the Anderson gives me 4″ groups out to that range quite nicely.
If I were to recommend something for your situation, I’d put a big long bull barrel on it with a threaded end for compensator or suppressor. Try to make a heavier bullet with slower twist work over a lighter one with faster twist.
SiG · October 11, 2023 at 10:46 am
I’m pretty sure I’m a bit older than you, so consider that, but my first 308 purchase was a DPMS LR-308B, and I find that for 200 yards I need more optical power than that Primary Arms scope. I’m using a Nikon Monarch 5-20×50 which doesn’t even seem to be available anymore. It’s pretty much a 2 MOA rifle with factory ammo, so a 4″ circle at 200 yards.
With lower power (not sure I’ve ever used 16x) I find I can target with it, but can’t see the holes to know if I’ve hit the target. That may not matter for you.
Sarin · October 11, 2023 at 10:58 am
ACSS grid reticle is great. Primary Arms makes a solid product. Much like Boris, I recommend buying direct from them.
Swampfox Optics makes great optics as well in my experience. They’re a bit higher in price, not as expensive as some of the bigger names in optics.
V2 · October 11, 2023 at 11:05 am
I have an S&W MP10 with a magpul bipod and a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40mm Rifle Scope, I’m happy with it!
Moe · October 11, 2023 at 11:50 am
Hello Divemedic,
You have taught me a lot, and I hope to return the favor a bit by making a couple of suggestions.
Regarding the scope, I don’t have experience with Primary Arms but have heard good things about them. Just stay away from Vortex. Yes, good warranty, but not great scopes.
You are wise to go with first focal plane because at distance, a second focal plane’s reticle can be so huge it covers your target. Besides, with an FFP the subtensions are accurate at all magnification settings so you can quickly hold over if needed and don’t have time to dial the elevation/windage.
One thing about the dot/chevron in the center of the PA reticle, hard to tell from the photos, but it can be too small to see at lower magnifications (since the reticle will “shrink” at lower mag in an FFP). Don’t ask how I know!
If you’re looking for accuracy (2 MOA or better), the AR platform is probably not the best. It’s really not meant for good accuracy, but ~4 MOA.
So what would I suggest? It depends on your budget and preferences. If your needs are not urgent and you can save to get something better, here are suggestions:
If you’re OK with bolt action, a Tikka T3X1 or Bergara B14 would serve you very well.
If you want semi auto, a SCAR 17S is hard to beat, but it is pricey. With good ammo it consistently does sub MOA if you do your job. With factory ammo, depending on brand and bullet weight, you should be able to get ~2 MOA. The thing is battle proven and the SEALS have dragged it through salt water and mud and it still keeps a kickin’.
Oh, 308 WIN is plenty good, readily available, and relatively inexpensive. Yes, you can go with exotic things like 6.5 CM and such, but they are more expensive and frankly seem a bit of a fad. I’ve seen guys shoot sub MOA past 1500 with 308.
Just my $0.02, and good luck!
Oldude · October 11, 2023 at 1:15 pm
Get a Larue OBR if ya wanna Deal with issues out to 800 anyway.
175gr.
It will do better than you request ny a longshot….if you can. No Offense.
Spend it Once.
imo anyway.
Woody · October 11, 2023 at 1:21 pm
Can’t really say without knowing what type of shooting position you used. Sitting at a bench, prone or sitting. Bipod or blocks/sandbag for a rifle rest. Are you looking for ACSS reticles only. That scope should be able to help you tighten up the groups.
Stephen · October 11, 2023 at 1:32 pm
6mm arc seems interesting, though like you my DM rifle is a .308 (M1a)
Stag Arms 18″ dm rifle has my attention
Slow Learner · October 11, 2023 at 2:56 pm
Ditto on the getting it directly from Primary Arms. I waiting on this one for my .308. It is supposed to be released sometime this month. https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slx-3-18×50-ffp-gen-2-rifle-scope-acss-apollo-308-6-5-grendel
Ed Campbell · October 11, 2023 at 3:24 pm
Like the reticle and have had good experience with the Primary Arms scope I do have (Not on my .308 however). I imagine it would not be a problem achieving 2 MOA accuracy off a rest or bags with a good 20 inch barrel using good quality factory .308. For whatever reason, even though they both chrony with approximately the same variance in velocity, my R25 (16 inch barrel) is much much happier with Hornaday .308 than it is with Winchester whitebox.
Aesop · October 11, 2023 at 3:40 pm
Mil spec accuracy for a battle rifle is 3″-6″ at 100Y.
The M-16 platform was required to be 5″ at the worst, with iron sights.
1″-3″ is sniper rifle accuracy territory.
And the rule of thumb for the latter is that you should be spending more on the glass than on the rifle for that.
For an AR-10, that means presumably also with a heavyweight barrel, and longer than average.
Like 20″-24″.
A S&W MP-10 w/16″ standard profile bbl. is 8 pounds, naked and unloaded.
So you’re looking at a weapon of what? 10-11#…? Empty?
And then the weight of XX number of loaded magazines, at a pound-and-a-half-per for 20-rounders.
That kind of cancels out “carry in the field”, I think, unless you like pain.
I did a shorty 16″ M-1A for a couple of years, and quickly decided 100 rounds was enough ready ammo, and I still paid for that, with younger knees.
FWIW, load up 3 feet of metal pipe with shot and sand until it weighs 10-11 pounds, cap it, and carry it around for a couple of hours. Bonus points for “on a hike with a full field pack”.
“Only accurate rifles are interesting” to be sure, but my enthusiasm for yomping around with a virtual WWII BAR cradled in my arms wanes inversely with distance from a vehicle, as the years march onwards.
At some point, I’d want to settle on a bolt-action M40AWhatever clone, or get something belt-fed.
YMMV.
You want a more accurate rifle for 500Y shots?
The far easier way to do that is spend a lot more time in the prone position with the weapon you’ve got, get a rangefinder, learn to read wind and set windage, convert money to noise, dope in your weapon, and put it in a data book. Tape the final results to the stock with clear all-weather tape when you’re dialed in.
Works every time.
IMHO, if you aren’t spending more on ammo over a couple of years than you did on the weapon system, you’re probably doing it wrong.
Will · October 11, 2023 at 3:50 pm
The only thing that bothers me about putting a full length scope on an AR platform rifle is, to get the proper eye relief, the scope has to hang out over the charging handle. I have seen this create a problem with some rifles.
Don W Curton · October 11, 2023 at 3:55 pm
Just a random comment, but I have a bare bones budget S&W MP-15 (or whatever they call their AR rifle). I put a regular hunting rifle 6x scope on it for lack of anything better in my gun closet. Nothing fancy. Shooting just regular old .556 ammo (Winchester white box, I think) it was 4-6″ at 100 yds. Really bummed me out. Then I loaded up some Black Hills and it was better than MOA at that same distance, same range, same day. I ran a box of something else thru there too, it shot maybe 1.5 inches. Point of aim/impact all stayed roughly the same, just the spread changed. First time I saw that big of a difference on nothing but ammo.
You wanna hit 10″ at 500 yds, you need to be pretty selective on the type of factory ammo you use.
ChrisJ · October 11, 2023 at 4:00 pm
We need to know your budget and if you have any preferences on overall weight and components. Will you build or buy complete?
Tar · October 11, 2023 at 4:41 pm
I’m pretty happy with my Sig Sauer 716 with the Tango-MSR LPVO 1-10 mounted on top. Might have been better to get a Tango 1-6 vs 1-10 due to the length of the scope coming right up on my charging handle, but I can still work it. Newer version 716 is linked below.
https://www.sigsauer.com/sig716-tread.html
https://www.sigsauer.com/tango-msr-lpvo-1-10x28mm.html
Xzebek · October 11, 2023 at 4:45 pm
AR10 is a tried and true platform and .308 a reliable round with a great history. But if you’re looking for likelihood of hits at that distance, might you not be better off going with 6.5 Creedmoor? (Full disclosure I don’t shoot either, I use a 30-06 Mauser fir distance shooting). But if I were going to build or buy a distance rifle I’d go with the 6.5. Either way, you’ll have a fine weapon!
Max Wiley · October 11, 2023 at 6:12 pm
LaRue OBR 18″ and don’t worry about it.
Or you do what I did and build your own.
Aero M5 upper and lower, Geissele SSA-E trigger, Fail Zero BCG, Troy Alpha rail, Luth-AR stock, Tubb buffer spring, LaRue lever mount for optic. Use a rifle length DI with adjustable gas block unless you intend for it to wear a can most of the time, if so then put a piston on it. Piston gun will probably be more finicky about what it shoots well.
I did a custom Schneider barrel at 18″ with fairly heavy fluted taper behind the gas block and straight .750″ from gas block forward, but if I had it to do over I might use a Faxon Match 416R 18″. My setup was designed and built in 2016 to be an 800 yard DMR and it appears the military agreed, since the M110A1 is also an 18″ gun instead of that horrible 26″ boat anchor the M110 was.
Mine shoots MOA off of a bipod with almost anything out to 200+ yards. For the further stuff I use M80 pulldown Lake City primed brass, light neck prep, with either Reloder15 or Varget and a 165gr Nosler Accubond. Shoots MOA to 600+. I load to 308 pressures but this requires careful tuning of the gas block to make sure 7.62 NATO will still operate 100% reliably without over gassing the 308.
Jonathan · October 11, 2023 at 6:16 pm
If you want a good long range shooter, I’d go for something higher end, at least Vortex or Leupold.
Also, you’ll have to look around alot to find a 308 semi that will hold that accuracy; you may want to look at a bolt gun.
As for as reliability, I’ve read of several big name trainers who say they’ve never had an AR10 make it through a 1,000 round class; keep that in mind too.
bob · October 11, 2023 at 6:52 pm
I have an Armalite AR 10T — the “target” version –it has a Leupold Mark 4 6.5×20 on top
Ordering the target version got me a better barrel, and all around better put-together rifle.
A little heavy, but not unmanageable, — it will pattern 1″ at 100 yards with military 149 grain ammo, and do better than that with match ammo
Having competed in small bore rifle in Jr high/early high school — I learned how to be a fairly good shot. I went thru Army Basic when they were using the M14 –and scored well enough to come in 2nd in the company competition. This scoped AR 10 isn’t much heavier than that M14 was — so I don’t see that as an issue.
It’s not a close-in skirmish rifle. The fact that you want to put a 4×16 scope on it, and the extra load out weight of 7.62×51 ammo, somewhat limits your effectiveness for that type of play.
My take is — if you’re shooting a 7.62 in a SHTF situation, you’re doing it likely on overwatch or sniper-type duty. You’re not humping it a long distance.
But YMMV
StBernardnot · October 11, 2023 at 7:20 pm
Got a DPMS oracle style 308. Heavy but 1 1/2 at 200.
Henry · October 11, 2023 at 10:00 pm
Take a look at Arken scopes: https://www.arkenopticsusa.com/
Not sure of your budget for the rifle, but it’s hard to go wrong with Daniel Defense if you can handle the price. If you want to hold down the cost of the rifle, Palmetto State is generally good value. If weight is an issue, the Ruger SFAR looks pretty interesting,
Sandspur · October 11, 2023 at 10:21 pm
Hi, DM. First time commenting here but I’ve enjoyed your blog for awhile.
I put together an AR-10 several years ago that’s pretty adequate. I used a DPMS LR10 for the basic rifle. I know plenty of folks don’t like DPMS, but in my experience, they have pretty good barrels. Their triggers, on the other hand, aren’t great, so I installed a CMC trigger from Primary Arms, followed by a 4-16 scope, also from Primary Arms. I’ve only used it out to 300 yds, but when I’m disciplined in my shooting technique, it’s accurate.
The best ammo I’ve found for that rifle is Federal Gold Medal Match hollow point, 175 gr. Just my thoughts.
Le dude · October 11, 2023 at 11:01 pm
I have the primary arms 4-14×44 ffp scope on a psa .308 ar10. Zeroed at 100, shooting m80 147 grain surplus I have made all first round hits at 500 yards on a 12″ gong only using the built in holds. 90% first round hits at 650, 75% at 750, probably 50% at 850. I would definitely buy it again (and probably will)
Anonymous · October 11, 2023 at 11:34 pm
My opinion (labeled “opinion” because there’s not enough evidence to prove it’s the best strategy): perhaps you should want night vision instead of another gun? Perhaps knowing when and where to sneak away without shooting, gives you a personally better outcome than shooting?
Vlad · October 12, 2023 at 12:19 am
I understand 308 if for nothing else than continuity of ammo/reloading supplies. I’ve got a ton!
I didn’t get the 6.5 CM hotness until I shot a friends 6.5.
Compared to 308 it was a pussycat to fire.
LOW recoil and flat shooting. My next upper build is going to be 6.5CM.
Elrod · October 12, 2023 at 1:16 am
I’ll second Boris’s comment on buying direct from Primary Arms. Additional reason for doing that – if there’s ever an issue, trying to get resolution from BezosMart is a lost cause, while being a direct PA customer will. It’s important to build supplier relationships, and Bezos Don’t Care.
I know you said .308, and I’m deep in the 7.62X51 KoolAid Klub, but 6.5 Creedmoor is surprising me daily. I’m not giving up my AR-10s in 308 (why shoot ’em 2-3 times with 5.56 when a single 168 grain will do), but I’m giving very serious thought to re-barrelling another one in Creedmoor. Inside 400 meters there’s no real advantage to Creedmoor but out past 500-800 there is.
I’ve even given some thought to a bolt rifle in 26 Nosler “just because.” I’m sure it eats barrels like acid, but being able to Reach Out and Touch Something at 1500 reliably has an attraction. But, the 6.5X55 Swede is almost as good and quite acceptable at 1K-1200 and more available. Decisions, decisions.
The only handicap I’m seeing with Creedmoor is not so much availability of ammo but having to stockpile another caliber for the coming festivities. I noticed t’other day the dot mil is procuring a small lot of AR-10s and bolt rifles in 6.5 C, and I heard a rumor about a tiny batch of prototype 240s in 6.5C. If Uncle Sugar goes Creedmoor ammo availability will go way up.
Aesop · October 12, 2023 at 4:32 am
Maybe in 10-20 years it will.
I think that if Uncle goes 6.5, ammo availability for the civilian market will crater for the next decade or more, while the dotMil soaks up all stocks worldwide, to infinity and beyond.
Like they do.
If you want to wait until 2033 or so, if even then, when you can finally find some practice ammo, that’s one way to go, but I wouldn’t be getting my hopes up.
Most of us recall what happened to .5.56/.223 and 7.62×51/.308 with just two piss-ant wars going on in the Sandbox, using rounds that had been NATO military bog-standard for 50+ years.
Anyone who likes 6.5 should probably hope the military decides, wisely, that they don’t need yet another standard caliber, requiring billion$ to be spent on new weapons and new stockpiles of ammunition, and treats 6.5 Anything like a UFO in the 1960s: never seen it, and never heard of it.
Georgiaboy61 · October 12, 2023 at 2:20 am
@ Dive Medic
You’ve gotten a lot of advice already, and maybe don’t need more, but let me throw in with one or two recommendations. For the money, Primary Arms makes great optics with fabulous features so you are good there. Ruger’s SFAR (small-frame AR) is a lightweight long gun which tips the scales at about the same as a comparable rifle in 5.56x45mm NATO, but fires .308. Their 16-inch model is probably not the answer for long-range shooting as much as their 20-inch model, which might be just the ticket for your needs. Uses Magpul P-mags and also comes with an adjustable gas block, too.
Of course, POF makes something similar, but they are considerably more costly.
One can sometimes find an Armalite AR10 used for sale. I am speaking of the firm, not the national armory which went out of existence in 1968. There are two patterns, A and B. The A pattern takes stanag magazines, including Magpul. The B series uses Armalite proprietary mags, which are a variant of M-14 magazines. OEM M14/M1A mags can be modified to work, but it is cheaper to just get some Armalite ones. These are very well-built, accurate rifles and although not cheap, they are worth the coin. Armalite competed for the contact ultimately won by Knights Armament a couple of decades or more ago, but their system is a very nicely done large-frame AR that utilizes 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Win. equally well.
If you like old-school rifles, Fulton Armory makes great M1As – but they’re not cheap. Their match versions are very accurate.
Georgiaboy61 · October 12, 2023 at 2:36 am
If you plan to spend any amount of time shooting long range, you’ll need to find out what match-grade ammo your rifle prefers. The longer the distances and smaller the targets, the better and more-precise the ammo has to be. Match-grade ammunition is expensive, so many competitors in things like the PRS (precision rifle series) matches, learn to hand-load their own. Match-grade factory ammo has come a very long way in recent years chiefly due to R&D pertaining to the GWOT, which was a sniper’s conflict in many ways. Black Hills Ammunition is probably the state of the art for factory loads, along with a few other outfits.
Here’s the key, though: Don’t drop a bundle on ammo until you know what load your rifle “likes”… and even if your best friend’s rifle just like yours likes a particular load, doesn’t mean yours will. Every rifle and every barrel are unique and different and require at least some field testing and simple trial-and-error.
Bolt-action rifles are cheaper, lighter to carry and offer the best accuracy most of the time, in comparison to SLRs or self-loading rifles. Aesop is right about that, former Marine that he is.
There are highly-accurate SLRs, but they cost big bucks and by the time you are finished outfitting them for field work, they are anything but light in weight.
ZERO[F2G] · October 12, 2023 at 6:33 am
I have several PA scopes on various rifles, they are good scopes for the price.
My AR10 however has an Arken 4×16 SH4 gen 2. I feel it is superior to PA scopes in every area. Great mil grid reticle, larger turrets that have substantially better tactile feel, an easy to set zero stop, Best tracking of any sub 2500 dollar scope, equal to maybe better glass and it has a life time warranty.
Price is similar, Arken scopes range from around 300 to 600 depending on model. And if you use the right code you get many add on’s for free. At the time of purchase last year I used code REX170 and received a mount, caps, rear bag, cat tail, level, a tee shirts and a few decals for no additional cost.
Anonymous · October 12, 2023 at 6:59 am
DM- very pleased with DD .308; it’s moa, 18” bbl.
Jay Dee · October 12, 2023 at 7:21 am
Years ago, I bought a German made HK-91 before they got expensive. Using the HK scope mount & a Redfield 8 -16X scope, the gun would shoot about 4 inch groups at 100 yards using military ammunition. When I reloaded the military cases with the same bullet weight & duplicated the military velocity, the gun would now shoot 1 inch groups. I didn’t do anything special. I reloaded using Hornady 150 grain FMJ bullets and used my powder measure for the charges.
My lesson learned was that commercial and especially military ammunition is crap if you’re looking for accuracy.
ChrisJ · October 12, 2023 at 9:41 am
DM,
You’ll find no better place for scope recommendations than here: https://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=623. This site is run by Ilya Koshkin, aka “The Dark Lord of Optics”, who also has a youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DarkLordOfOptics.
Moe · October 12, 2023 at 10:19 am
Hello again Divemedic,
You’ve already got a lot of comments and I don’t want to over stay my welcome, but would like to add a couple of things to my original
comment.
If you want a semi auto action, I would suggest a gas piston system instead of direct impingement. The AR, with direct impingement, gets dirty very quickly which affects reliability. I have seen them stop functioning reliably after ~100 rounds of dirty factory/mil ammo. It is also relatively speaking a pain to clean which is not surprising because “dirty” gas circulates back and hits the entire BCG area.
Piston guns are a lot cleaner because the gas stops at the piston, so to speak. The area you need to clean is a lot smaller and easier to
clean.
Since I mentioned the FN SCAR 17S (easy to clean piston design and reliable after 100s of rounds without cleaning), here is the results of shooting one out to 600 yards:
Federal Sierra Matchking 308 WIN 168 gr: sub MOA
Federal Sierra Matchking 308 WIN 175 gr: sub MOA
PMC X-TAC 7.62×51: ~1.5-1.75 MOA
Armscor 7.62×51 military surplus: ~2-2.5 MOA
I am by no stretch anywhere close to being the world’s best shooter so these results are very impressive for what is considered a “battle rifle”.
The trigger is on the heavy side (battle rifle) but if you find a Geissele Super SCAR on sale you would have the same trigger that the SCAR 20S has (two-stage, very smooth and crisp break).
But the SCAR is pricey! I guess at the end of the day a lot depends on if you want something you would bet your life on or something not as critical.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
joe · October 12, 2023 at 2:15 pm
just buy this
https://palmettostatearmory.com/springfield-armory-rifle-m1a-socom-308-win-kryptek-highlander-aa9613.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=20231011&utm_term=morning&utm_content=
Divemedic · October 12, 2023 at 2:45 pm
I had one years ago. It’s very similar in performance to the one I built.
Ed McLeod · October 13, 2023 at 3:14 pm
About ten years ago, when I built an ar-10 clone, I discovered that PSA’s uppers and lowers don’t match anyone else’s. Once complete, though, it was a <2 min rifle. Start with a high-quality, match-grade barrel, trigger ass'y to similar spec's.
ZERO[F2G] · October 12, 2023 at 6:27 pm
Moe,
I respectively completely disagree with you. Ar’s are partially self cleaning, meaning where it matters most the carbon is cleared via firing. Cleaning is not difficult if you understand it doesn’t need to be cleaned like you would your bathroom mirror. Lubrication is far more important and key.
https://www.swatmag.com/article/filthy-14-bravo-company-carbine-goes-31165-rounds/
AR10’s do tend to need a bit more maintenance than the AR15, but still lubrication is the key to keeping it running.
Piston guns often run hotter in the gas port area, which can have its own effect on accuracy, while a DI gun will run hotter in the bolt. Piston guns also tend to have a greater recoil impulse regardless of caliber.
The scar is ridiculously over priced, offers little improvement IMHO over a good AR10, and if I have to slosh thru mud, I will trust an AR10 over a scar when my life depends on it. I have yet to see a mud comparison where the scar beats the AR.
I have put several thousand round thru my go to AR15 over the years rarely cleaning, just lubing without issue.
Last year I built my first AR 10 on a poylemer 80 lower, it has a ballistic advantage 20″ 1:10 barrel (planned on faxon or another top rated barrel but got the BA dirt cheap on sale) so I went with it.
Trigger is currently a rise armament single stage at 3.5, I’ll likely upgrade later. It shoots 1 to 2 moa with various milspec factory 147 FMJ loads and around .75 to 1 MOA assuming I do my part with 175 reloads. I am curious to try some 208 grain bergers. And those loads were developed for a bolt .308 I have that shoots .5 or better, not this AR10 so in time maybe I can tighten it up.
It only has 160 rounds through it so far, have not cleaned it and have had zero malfunctions.
Not trying to be or sound like a dick. I just disagree that AR’s are hard to clean, disagree that they need to be cleaned often, and when cleaned it needs not be spotless. They just like to be properly lubed to run.
Scars are sexy as hell, and if they were not so expensive I would love to own the scar 17, no desire for the 16. In general I believe DI to be superior to gas piston, if you think about it the AR as Stoner designed it is a gas piston system, it just resides in the carrier rather additional parts outside of the carrier itself.
Moe · October 12, 2023 at 8:52 pm
If Divemedic indulges, I’d like to reply briefly.
I’m not here to argue with you, and hope that Divemedic researches all the points rather just believe some guys on the Internet one way or the other.
To each his own. It’s a personal decision what you trust your life to. I’ll go with the SEALs and the actual war track record of the SCAR 17S and how many forces across the world rely on it.
SCARs nearly always bring out a strong reaction in people online. As a friend observed, people who have one love it, and those that don’t, don’t.
Aesop · October 13, 2023 at 9:07 am
Point of Order:
How many of the people who love them, bought them out of their own pockets?
A free rifle is always better than one you had to buy yourself.
This is why issue rifles, or rifles bought and fed on Uncle’s credit card, are rather suspect in that regard when self-reviewed by those using or having used them. They’re paid reviews, whether one acknowledges that truth or not.
That’s also why consulting a price vs. value graph, arranged much like the Hot/Crazy Matrix, would be helpful in the decision process for anyone not on such a gravy train.
Just saying.
There’s rifles that are a p.o.s. at any price; and some that are great, but the price is retardedly Ferrari-high.
Better vs. cheaper is near-universally a zero-sum game.
Absent some mythical game-changing ability, or some non-negotiable requirement not liable to come from a private individual, folks should (and most do) stick with the sweet spot in the middle on such a graph.
{And FTR, it’s not a straight line, it’s an “S” shape.
https://i.imgur.com/AXBLKSF.jpg}
This is why people laughed at them when Road & Track or Car & Driver reviewed cars with base prices in the hundreds of thousands, which no Average Joe was or is ever going to drive, except in a video game. It’s nice trivia knowledge, but it’s never going to affect their lives either way.
Rifle Projects – Area Ocho · October 13, 2023 at 10:06 am
[…] to everyone that posted comments to my request for proposed ideas for my next rifle project. I want to take a minute and point out that this is for a build project. […]
Comments are closed.