Joe brings up a great issue. The left refuses to admit that not everyone has the same opinion as they do. You didn’t vote for Kamala because you are a racist misogynist, not because leftist policies suck. I tried to explain to some people why I voted against Florida’s amendment that would have legalized marijuana. I told them that I voted against it because it only permitted people with licenses to sell, distribute, and grow marijuana, and because it would have meant smelling that nasty shit everywhere. Had they made it legal for anyone to grow it, and mandated that only edibles could be used in public places, I would have voted yes.
Instead of listening to me, they called me names, with ‘boomer’ being the least offensive. They don’t understand that the way to convince someone to give you their vote doesn’t include threats and name calling.
There is a truth in many things, and there are opinions. One needs to be able to tell the difference. Sometimes, “Agree to disagree” is not a viable option.
I refuse to “agree to disagree.” That is stupid. Suppose I came out and said that men should be able to freely rape women, or we should be able to own slaves. Would liberals still want to “agree to disagree?” When someone says that to me, it comes across as some smarmy, superior attitude that basically says “I am smarter than you, and I am your better, but since you, with your obviously inferior intellect cannot see reason and agree with me, I will simply smile at you, and tell you that you have a right to your opinion, you simpleton.”
I won’t “agree to disagree,” because “agree to disagree” is an incredibly lazy tactic. It ranks up there with “everyone is entitled to their own opinion” among dishonest and self-defeating statements made in lieu of actual argument.
The argument could be useful, I suppose, if it meant no more than what it says – mutual recognition of a disagreement on a matter of opinion. Some arguments are intractable – issues of personal taste or the subjective importance of certain values cannot be resolved empirically. In an argument like that, once both sides have expressed themselves as clearly as possible, if there is still no agreement then there is nothing left to do but acknowledge there is a disagreement, and leave it at that.
That is not, however, the sense in which I most often hear the phrase “agree to disagree” used. What is usually meant is “we’re both equally right, both equally wrong.” It is an arch-liberal dodge, invoking the most ludicrous type of relativistic equivocation. If I am holding a flamethrower and you are holding a lit match, it is true that we can both start fires, but pretending that we can just “agree to disagree” about which is better suited to the task of lighting a candle is nonsense.
Two positions, one demonstrably true and the other based on nothing more than feelings, do not share the same level of validity. If we can agree on some basic definitions like “true” and “evidence”, and if we can agree that it is important to have true beliefs rather than false ones, then we can and should examine different ideas. While it might be nice to pretend that this kind of dispute is simply a difference of opinion, it most certainly is not. I refuse to pretend that a poorly-argued position, based on straw men refutations of legitimate questions, holds sufficient validity to be granted any more respect than belief in aliens or the Loch Ness monster. Examples include:
- Women don’t have, and never have had, penises.
- If a man truly has a belief that he is a woman, or a woman believes that she is really a man, that person is delusional.
- Adults shouldn’t be discussing sexual matters with children. Even adolescents are iffy in most cases.
- Taking one person’s money to give to another isn’t charity- it’s theft.
- One person’s rights end where another person’s rights begin.
When a person claims that they wish to “agree to disagree” is really saying is, “I want you to agree that my position has just as much merit as yours”, and I am certainly not interested in engaging in masquerading a clear true/false dichotomy as a simple difference of perspective. Truth is not established easily, and that’s a good thing. In a universe where an infinite number of explanations for a given phenomenon are conceivable, we must scrutinize and test to see which ideas are worth keeping and which can be discarded safely. “Agreeing to disagree” is simply asking to lump the good ideas in with the fanciful or debunked ones in some misguided sense of fairness.
Some things are simply so repugnant, and so against freedom and decency that I cannot agree to disagree. The point here is that we live in society that claims to value freedom. There are always those who would abuse those freedoms and hurt others. I won’t play that game, nor will I vote for someone who does.
To the left- that is why I voted the way that I did.
That is also why I don’t have a strong opinion on abortion. The matter of opinion in that debate, where I am concerned, is “when exactly does life begin?” There are good arguments to be made on both sides, and there is no real empirical way to settle that debate (at least not at this point). There is a point, however, when no one can argue that the fetus isn’t a living child. The child has a heartbeat, a functioning nervous and digestive system, and is a fully formed person capable of survival on its own. At that point, abortion is murder unless it is to prevent death or serious injury to the mother (in other words, it becomes a form of self defense).
I also think that this isn’t a Federal issue, not being one of the enumerated powers of the Federal government, so it is up to each state and its voters to determine.
14 Comments
Boneman · December 2, 2024 at 6:06 am
Good stuff. Agreeing to disagree IS… utterly disagreeable. In fact, it’s in a way akin to pleading “No Lo Contendere” or “No Contest” in Court. Basically, I give up…. on the “ARGUMENT” but consider me guilt as charged.
Or a STALEMATE in the game of Chess. Nobody wins or loses and nothing is accomplished but the argument itself.
Just because one is firm and stalwart in their beliefs… does not mean those beliefs are in fact accurate. Sometimes the truth can lead to dire situations… Galileo could expound on THAT for sure. And yet, agree to disagree did he? I seriously doubt that crossed HIS mind for a nanosecond.
Joe Blow · December 2, 2024 at 6:58 am
Bless your heart….
grumpy51 · December 2, 2024 at 7:56 am
I admit I have let the “agree to disagree” argument slide – with my mother. She has dementia and spouts forth some of the weirdest stuff (straw that broke – paraphrasing, Hitler was not an evil person, just someone who did evil things). It wasn’t worth the brain power to discuss further. And she even had forgotten the discussion 30 minutes later.
I do enjoy the “not viable” discussion. For those who believe such, ask them about the use of a ventilator on a loved one. The person, regardless of age, who requires being on a ventilator to breathe, is “not viable” without the technology. That leads down the rabbit-hole of technology versus human. It’s OK for someone to be on a ventilator, but NOT OK for the mother to be providing all the nutrients and gaseous exchanges required for life to her baby.
I have ultimately come to the conclusion that most people are incapable of critical thinking or being able to debate.
Divemedic · December 2, 2024 at 8:07 am
To the not viable argument- there is a point in the development of a fetus where there is not a 4 chambered heart, there is nothing of the nervous system but a neural tube if that, and the organs have not yet formed. The case can be made that this is not yet a human.
At the same time, there is a point where the embryo has 23 chromosomal pairs, and clearly meets the definition of a living organism.
Both arguments have validity, and the answer is not easily and empirically arrived upon. Again, that is why I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other. Both arguments have their merits and flaws.
To your point about ventilators- a person on a ventilator is alive only because they are being supported in that effort. That is why it isn’t murder to withdraw life support.
Grumpy51 · December 2, 2024 at 9:31 am
Uggg, mea culpa. Punctuation is my friend (or nemesis in above).
My ventilator v mother comparison should have had question marks at the end. It was meant as a question versus a statement.
ModernDayJeremiah · December 3, 2024 at 1:59 am
Yes. That point is conception. A new human being is formed at that point, with unique DNA, created in the image of Almighty God.
Divemedic · December 3, 2024 at 7:43 am
Again, that’s a personal viewpoint, and while there is an argument to be made for that, it is also true that a morulla, blastula, or gastrula isn’t a human. It will be one day, but it just isn’t yet.
Unique DNA isn’t what makes a human. For example, twins have identical DNA. Since they aren’t unique, are they not human? By the same token, my blood cells have no DNA at all, but the hair I leave behind does.
Again, I have no strong opinion there, but what you are saying is simply a matter of opinion. Another person may not believe what you believe.
Gerry · December 2, 2024 at 10:53 am
I take Agree to Disagree to mean something else.
Your not changing my mind and I’m not changing yours so let’s move on to something more productive
For me if you start talking about common sense gun control you are just wasting time and breath.
Divemedic · December 2, 2024 at 1:06 pm
Of course it is. You are attempting to keep criminals from committing crimes by instituting restrictions on the law abiding. The theory is that all criminals were law abiding until they weren’t, so we are going to keep them from becoming criminals in the first place by preventing them from buying certain items.
lynn · December 2, 2024 at 5:20 pm
> Women don’t have, and never have had, penises.
I thought at one time that we had resolved this in the great “Kindergarten Cop” movie. “Boys have penises, Girls have vaginas” was very clearly stated in that movie.
Divemedic · December 2, 2024 at 9:11 pm
They couldn’t make that movie today. It would be discriminatory or something.
joe · December 2, 2024 at 6:09 pm
there is only way to believe with a leftist and that’s their way or the highway…it’s why they want to do away with “mis/dis/information…limit what can be said or put out on social media…you will listen only to their soviet style propaganda on the approved stations and that is all you will get…they don’t want people to research and make a decision for themselves…it’s the commie way or no way…
oldvet50 · December 3, 2024 at 7:14 am
Good article. I always laughed at the logic that an embryo is not a human but a sea turtle egg is a sea turtle – thereby justifying huge fines and possible imprisonment for disturbing a nest (of the sea turtle).
Divemedic · December 3, 2024 at 7:48 am
Yes. Whatever is decided needs to be consistent. A man who is drunk, gets in a car accident with a pregnant female and causes a miscarriage is charged with manslaughter, but the woman can kill the child and it’s just her choice.