I got in a social media discussion with someone who said that anyone who advocates breaking up families by deporting people is a monster. I pointed out that this was no more monstrous than breaking up a family for any other reason, such as jailing people for owning assault weapons or for DUI.
He tried claiming that illegal immigration is a victimless act, and therefore not a crime, and so all righteous people are charged with resisting any law which criminalizes free immigration. I pointed out that so was DUI and owning an unregistered machine gun.
He then tried claiming that all laws which have no specific, individual victim that you can point to are null and void. I told him to try not paying his taxes, and then see if the judge agreed.
He then moved on to saying that if he wanted to invite his friends from Mexico City to stay in his home, I was interfering with his property rights by denying that right, and therefore I did not respect property. That was when I asked him what the difference was between an individual’s property rights and a nation’s property rights. He then accused me of changing the subject, and began calling me a racist xenophobe because I hate Mexicans and Latinos.
I replied by saying that I did not mention race, and that HE was the racist for assuming that all illegal immigrants were Mexican or Latino.
That was when I got banned.
9 Comments
Anonymous · April 3, 2017 at 5:06 pm
In California Illegal immigration costs the California taxpayers $13 billion a year. This number goes up every year. Other states pay additional taxes to support illegals as well but the amount is slightly less consistent with the lower numbers of illegals. It is not a victimless crime.
It is interesting to me that people would think that sending someone "home" is either a punishment or immoral. They aren't being sent to jail or to hell they are given a free ride home. That's a good thing.
Anonymous · April 4, 2017 at 12:38 am
"Nations" are created by conquering at gunpoint. Thus they are no more legitimate of an entity than any other mafia-type protection racket. As a nation is an organized crime organization created by murder, it does not have property ownership rights. Thus it cannot have property boundaries called "borders". People from Mexico City are welcome to stay in any home anywhere, or work in any business, into which they are invited.
I agree there are many organized crime organizations presently in existence. But, people who don't fight back against extortion, whose payments are then partially used to resettle conquerors, are dumb.
Anonymous · April 4, 2017 at 3:42 pm
Anon 7:38
That is a stupid argument and I doubt you really believe it. But even if it were true that every nation was created illegally what difference does it make? They can still create and enforce their borders. If they don't then another group will "illegally" take them over and create a new nation. This is about survival of the people. Our nation has a responsibility to the citizens and zero responsibility to non-citizens. Simple as that. Your suggestion " People from Mexico City are welcome to stay in any home anywhere…" is ludicrous and will inevitably result in a civil war or revolution. You cannot allow people to come into your home/country and take your wealth/property and it inevitably will lead to violence.
Anonymous · April 4, 2017 at 10:11 pm
But even if it were true that every nation was created illegally what difference does it make? They can still create and enforce their borders. If they don't then another group will "illegally" take them over and create a new nation.
Self-defense is merely a military engineering problem. An organized criminal gang larger than 20 guys in the hood requires tax collection to provide its logistics. Bitcoin and similar ideas are going to cut off tax collection. The end of the age of governments is near.
You cannot allow people to come into your home/country and take your wealth/property
I wrote "into which they are invited", not "in any home anywhere" or theft. Straw man fallacy. Please argue against my position, not against a different position which you pretend I hold because it's easier to dispute.
This is about survival of the people.
This is about survival of the government, not the people.
Anonymous · April 5, 2017 at 5:57 am
"into which they are invited" Since they affect everyone they would have to be invited by everyone. They are NOT!
In five years bitcoin will be a crossword oddity.
Anonymous · April 5, 2017 at 7:37 am
Since they affect everyone they would have to be invited by everyone.
Blame for bad behavior by an adult is placed only on that adult, you can't shift it in the slightest to others. The incoming person might choose to harm many others, but prior to their crime other people do not have a veto on their freedom.
Your idea of "collective guilt" is contrary to physical cause and effect. My brain does not control the limbs of Fred down the street, who just now is choosing to steal a car. I can't be blamed because I don't have control of Fred. Physically attempting to give everyone control of everyone is Communism, and leads to a German, Russian, or Chinese type genocide.
In five years bitcoin will be a crossword oddity.
I agree. It will be replaced by something which has a mint mark, so that one cryptocurrency unit issued by Sam's Savings and Loan can be announced as exchangeable for one gold coin from Sam's safe. The current Bitcoin is a global accounting ledger which permits passing counts of Bitcoins back and forth, but there is no reasonable way to declare Bitcoins as exchangeable for anything.
Anonymous · April 5, 2017 at 3:52 pm
In the state of California alone the citizens spend $13 billion of their state tax money on illegal aliens. This isn't and shouldn't be one person's decision. Everyone is involved in that decision like it or not. Rape, murder, sexual assault of children by illegal aliens is rampant. That should not be one person's decision to unleash that plague on other Americans. If you don't want to be blamed for what "Fred" does than do not invite Fred into the country.
You could write books about the strengths and weaknesses of the fiat dollar and the Fed. In fact many people have written books about it. If you focus in the weaknesses you will convince the reader that it is the worst thing in the world and only benefits the rich and government. Yet it, or something like "it" is necessary and it has allowed us decades of relatively stable and safe economic freedom. It will crash, nothing lasts forever. It possibly could be designed and managed to last forever but human nature is human nature and politicians are human so we misuse it and extort and twist it to our will/needs. When it crashes we will undergo a period (years perhaps) of economic hell and it will wear down any resistance to allowing our imperfect politicians to recreate another fist "dollar" and some kind of oversight group that won't be called the Fed but will essentially be the Fed. There is no other rational and practical system that will work. (Yes I know you want a gold standard but that may have been practical when there was 50 million Americans it isn't practical with 330 million Americans and so much wealth as we have today. There just isn't enough gold.) It is illegal for you or I to create a currency and it would be illegal for bitcoin or something like a bitcoin to try to sell themselves as a currency in this country. Like it or not the next currency will be fiat money created by the fools who run our country.
Anonymous · April 5, 2017 at 7:14 pm
That first paragraph is confusion. It is full of words which define sets of humans, like "state of California", "citizens", "their", and "everyone". If you replace the words with lists of names of specific humans, you'll see the people belong to the sets in a different arrangement than the causes and effects claimed in the sentences. Maybe that's not clear, here's another example. The German Jews didn't vote to put themselves onto trains. Instead, the Nazi political party members and their employees put the Jews on trains, and any picking of goals ("voting") the German Jewish citizens were said to do was a sham.
[fiat currency] has allowed us decades of relatively stable and safe economic freedom.
The five and dime store has been replaced by the dollar store as the purchasing power of your savings was inflated away. Fiat currency has facilitated destroying the savings of the middle class. Nobody in the middle class has a retirement. It's all been stolen by currency inflation and wasting on destructive activities like war and welfare.
(Yes I know you want a gold standard but that may have been practical when there was 50 million Americans it isn't practical with 330 million Americans and so much wealth as we have today. There just isn't enough gold.)
Then use Silver or Copper, there is far more of those metals available. The original coin in common circulation in colonial America was a Silver coin made by Spain. Gold currently works because most people don't want to carry the metal disks in their pockets. Instead they want to carry paper or electronic tokens to represent the disks. Price tags can be marked with smaller units like milligrams, but that number is just for the cash register. You don't need to make impractically small sized Gold coins. Instead you make change for Gold in Silver, and for Silver in Copper. Historically that's worked.
There is no other rational and practical system that will work [besides fiat currency]
Please state the argument which proves that.
It is illegal for you or I to create a currency and it would be illegal for bitcoin or something like a bitcoin to try to sell themselves as a currency in this country.
In some times and places it was illegal to teach slaves to read, or to hide Jews in the attic. Illegal doesn't mean immoral.
Like it or not the next currency will be fiat money created by the fools who run our country.
I expect the next major fiat currency will be issued by China, not USA. The situation of a country having the most trusted fiat currency lasts about 100 years, and USA is at the end of its run.
Anonymous · April 7, 2017 at 12:29 am
You seem to depend upon hate and fear to argue. For example you said "In some times and places it was illegal to teach slaves to read, or to hide Jews in the attic." Seems a little overboard to argue that you should be able to make your own legal tender. You reach for these strange similes because they intimidate or at least you think they do. It would be like me saying You are speaking exactly as Hitler did or you sound like a slave owner. It leaves you all pleased in your fake superiority. Try just making your point. Don't reach for these crazy putdowns.
"There is no other rational and practical system that will work [besides fiat currency]
Please state the argument which proves that."
As I said we have had 70 years or so of good times. If you don't believe that then you need to read more history. Yes it will get bad and probably soon. This is cyclical. It probably doesn't need to be cyclical but we humans are quite imperfect and we do stupid things and the piper must be paid. After it is a run it's course, say five-ten years of another great depression we will create a new fiat currency and with any luck enjoy another 70 years of good times.
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