Retard takes from a ‘veteran’ on social media:
Armed citizens SHOULD NOT be getting involved in gunfights involving police and criminals.
- 1) The police don’t know you from Adam so your presence with a gun only cause more confusion and the likely hood a innocent person including yourself gets injured
- 2) Most “armed citizens” I don’t care how many times you go to the range and shoot have no idea what it feels like when rounds are flying your way. Again its likely you would make the situation worse
- 3) Armed citizens should only use their guns in a defensive manner. This shit isn’t a movie!
- 4) Police have protections the average citizen does not. You shoot and kill anyone whether you are “trying to help or not” and you are civilly liable unless your life was in direct danger
Let’s address this idiocy by the numbers:
- Don’t try to stop criminals from engaging in spree shootings, or the police might kill you because they don’t care whether or not they are shooting the correct person. How is that an indictment of private citizens and not the police?
- Most cops don’t have any idea of what it’s like to be shot at. Less than 25% of cops are ever fire their weapons. It’s even lower for veterans. Even considering the lengthy GWOT, only 10–20% of all U.S. veterans have ever been engaged in combat, and most of those were IEDs or something other than small arms fire.
- OK, and? The same is true for cops.
- That’s incorrect. I can shoot to prevent someone else’s life from being threatened. I can shoot to stop a forcible felony. So that’s not exactly accurate, because real life is far more nuanced than you leftist simpletons can comprehend. Even so, cops shouldn’t be shooting people unless lives are in danger either.
Just because you were in the military doesn’t mean that you have more knowledge, legal or firearms related, than anyone else. It also doesn’t grant you rights or powers that anyone else doesn’t also have. So sit down and be quiet, adults are speaking.
20 Comments
ghostsniper · June 23, 2026 at 9:52 am
“Armed citizens SHOULD NOT….”
============
Full system halt.
I am, on occasion, an armed citizen and NOBODY gets to say anything about it. Ever.
In his book, “More Guns, Less Crime” Professor John Lott has proven that you are 13 times more likely to be shot by a cop than a fellow citizen.
Jester · June 23, 2026 at 6:53 pm
I’m often skeptical of when I read “As a Vet” and it goes something along the lines of what you posted DM. 1, are they indeed a vet. 2, Most of the time this idiocy comes from someone who was NOT associated with combat arms of any sort. 3, as a Veteran myself I can say there are some genuine idiots that manage to make it though, and 4, there are a lot of washouts that did not even complete basic training that run around proudly claiming Veteran status.
YourAverageJoe · June 23, 2026 at 7:33 pm
I enjoyed reading your counterpoints.
hh475 · June 23, 2026 at 10:19 pm
If you are dead, it doesn’t matter if you were legally justified. Cops make mistakes. If you are dead because of one, you are still dead. The “smart” move is to minimize the likelihood that you will be a victim of one of those mistakes.
I sometimes walk with a cane. Some years ago a case I reviewed was one in which a older man was ordered out of a car at a stop. He reached back to get his walking stick and pushed it out the door of the car as he tried to stand up. The cop thought it was a long gun and shot him. Was it a stupid mistake by the cop? Of course. Would it have been better if the man had said “I gotta get my walking stick?” Yes. He shouldn’t have had to say it, but it would have saved his life. Since then, on the rare occasions I’ve been pulled over, I mention to the cop that I walk with a stick just to make sure he knows.
So, to answer “How is that an indictment of private citizens and not the police?” It’s not. But the police are who they are. The question is how proactive you want to be to avoid being a victim of their mistakes.
Divemedic · June 24, 2026 at 6:31 am
but the person we are talking about here is using that as a reason why private citizens shouldn’t have guns unless they are cops or veterans. You can’t say that cops are so stupid that they will shoot the wrong person, and use that as the reason to have cops be the only ones with access to guns, unless you are a dishonest retard.
hH475 · June 24, 2026 at 3:20 pm
I misunderstood his thrust, then. The idea that cops and veterans are uniquely qualified to own and use firearms is silly, as the millions of successful defensive uses of guns — and the millions of stupid things cops have done — attests.
Bear in Indy · June 24, 2026 at 1:13 am
For a number of us in Central Indiana, we have a regularly scheduled radio show on 93.1 WIBC on Saturday afternoon from 5 till 7 PM, hosted by Guy Relford, an attorney who specializes in gun rights and has been doing so for years. He is extremely knowledgeable and is a NRA certified firearms instructor. He has defended many gun owners, from the overreach of the local government. He is an advocate for the restoration of Second Amendment rights, through legal expungement of past felonies. He is worth a listen, and he takes call in questions.
Bear in Indy
Bear in Indy · June 24, 2026 at 1:25 am
To add to my comment about Guy Relford, “The Gun Guy” on 93.1 WIBC radio, he is a significant reason why Indiana has a Constitutional carry law.
Bear in Indy
Michael · June 24, 2026 at 6:05 am
I was involved in a “clean shoot” as police described it. I was blessed the fellow shot wasn’t one of the “Protected Class”, blessed I was in a state and courtroom that wasn’t corrupted by woke the Gun IS Evil nonsense.
I was blessed that I was a well-known member of local EMS and the fellow shot was a long rap sheet problem child.
It STILL COST me and Mine a lot of social aggravation, a tad over 10 K legal bills mostly defending from liberals not even from my state, the snubbie 38 spent over a month in the evidence room.
And I still watch my 6 around his family and friends.
So PLEASE tell me ALL about your going to do this or that armed citizen stuff.
Chest pounders…
Robert · June 24, 2026 at 8:43 am
Location makes a critical difference.
In a “Blue” State, I expect I will be sanctioned for any use of a firearm, regardless of circumstances. That is simply the cost of such actions.
At a minimum, I may see impoundment of weapons as “evidence”, with considerable expense required to get them returned. There is a possibility of charges and arrest for “brandishing” or “assault”, or even more severe charges. And there is also the threat of civil suits.
All part of the deal. “It is what it is”, as I have been told. Also – “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”.
None of these prospects will prevent me from using a weapon as needed. That does require preparations, in the form of joining a legal defense protective organization. I note that “insurance” does not meet risk reduction requirements, as it can be legally voided if one is convicted on any criminal charges, or accepts any plea-bargaining deals. An “Attorney-on-retainer” group arrangement is what is needed.
JL · June 24, 2026 at 9:20 am
“How is that an indictment of private citizens and not the police?”
This one’s easy: how about ‘because it’s not your fucking job’?
If you’re carrying a firearm as a private citizen, you’re presumably doing it for the purpose of protecting yourself (and possibly any friends/family you happen to be with). That’s it. Even then, using that firearm should be a last resort, since your objective should be to get you and whoever you’re responsible for out of harm’s way.
If the shooter’s an immediate threat and egress isn’t an option, that’s one thing. But if you decide to pull iron and willingly put yourself in a highly dangerous situation by hunting an active assailant, all because you think you’re John fucking Wick and the cops are just THAT incompetent, and you get your ass shot for it (or maybe YOU fuck up and shoot a cop or a civvy), then yes it is ENTIRELY your fucking fault and a rightful indictment of a private citizen for sheer stupidity.
Divemedic · June 24, 2026 at 9:33 am
It *IS* my “fucking job” as you put it to defend myself and my family. So when a cop decides to shoot my ass because I was using my firearm to defend myself, that’s just too bad because I am not blessed with super police powers?
While I am not going out there and looking for trouble, I would expect that, should trouble find me, the cops would be just as culpable for shooting the wrong person as I would. It’s rather disingenuous to say “YOU fuck up and shoot a cop or a civvy then yes it is ENTIRELY your fucking fault and a rightful indictment of a private citizen for sheer stupidity,” but in the same breath, give cops a free pass by saying it’s still my fault as a private citizen if a cop decides to shoot me by mistake.
The cop should be just as liable for shooting the wrong person as anyone else- that is, both should be fully liable, or not- as long as the cop or citizen reasonably got them confused. To do otherwise is to create “super citizens” and I’ve had quite enough of special carve outs for some and running other citizens through the ringer.
However, I am guessing that your opinion is grounded in the fact that you yourself are a cop, and therefore don’t see a problem with cops occasionally smoking the wrong person.
Tsgt Joe · June 24, 2026 at 11:05 am
I dont agree that “its not my business” but I can see some issues, depending upon the circumstances. If the cop doesnt know you or your motivation, he might think you are trying to flank him, but if you can improve the situationfor him, do it. As to that veteran thing, as you can see by my signature, I too am a veteran. What else is true, in my 12 years in the AF, I only touched an M16 maybe 10 times for annual qualification. I can comfortably say I really learned zip about anything other than range safety. In the subsequent 45 years I have “leared” a bit and feel morally obligated to help innocents if in need.
JL · June 24, 2026 at 1:01 pm
“It *IS* my “fucking job” as you put it to defend myself and my family.”
No argument there. Perhaps you overlooked the part of my post, where I typed: “If the shooter’s an immediate threat and egress isn’t an option, that’s one thing.” (meaning: “by all means, blast away if the threat’s front and center” – but DO expect a ‘hot’ response; would be wise to holster your weapon or not have it in your hand when the police show up. Also maybe keep your mouth shut and lawyer up). But again, your priority should be ‘self preservation’, IE: getting you and your family the hell out of dodge.
The way you’re talking, a private citizen ought to be able to draw down and go hunt for the bad guy if he hears shots pop off at the other end of a crowded shopping mall or supermarket. Speaking strictly from a tactics standpoint, there are a host of reasons why that is abysmally stupid. Even if you carry as an off duty police officer. Shit, the risks of other cops going ‘blue on blue’ in an active assailant scenario are high enough as it stands. Could you pull a ‘Die Hard’ and willingly put yourself in literal chaos as a private citizen? Sure, I guess. Should you? I wouldn’t recommend it.
And who said anything about giving cops a free pass for fucking up? I sure as hell didn’t. Cop or armed citizen, as I see it, you are responsible for every round that comes out of the muzzle of your weapon. If Uvalde taught us anything (may that police department forever live in infamy), cops are even responsible for the rounds that DON’T come out of the muzzles of their guns when they ought to.
I don’t know what’s going to happen to that idiot ‘diversity hire’ (from what I heard) that shot a civilian in Montreal yesterday. There’s alot I and most people don’t know about how that all played out. But I can tell you this: I would not want to be in her boots because she is most definitely in a world of shit.
Divemedic · June 24, 2026 at 2:21 pm
Nowhere did I *EVER* say I was going hunting. The point of this post was to take issue with the statement that “Armed citizens SHOULD NOT be getting involved in gunfights involving police and criminals.” then going on to say that veterans and cops are the only ones professional enough to do so.
The real issue I have (had) with what you said was “you get your ass shot for it, then yes it is ENTIRELY your fucking fault” and I have a problem with a cop shooting you being YOUR fault. Just like we do, cops should have to watch where they are pointing that thing. The real problem is that cops have gotten away with literal murder so many times they have forgotten that.
JL · June 24, 2026 at 1:23 pm
“However, I am guessing that your opinion is grounded in the fact that you yourself are a cop, and therefore don’t see a problem with cops occasionally smoking the wrong person.”
That’s beautiful. I suppose this was meant to be included in your half assed reply to my post. Fair enough.
Well, if we’re gonna play the ‘guessing game’, then I guess it’d be equally fair to guess that YOUR opinion (as is with pretty much all of your anti cop bullshit) is grounded in the fact that you hate all cops because you’re obviously bitter that you likely tried to join a police department and, for whatever reason (probably a criminal record) didn’t make the cut, and so became a firefighter/EMT. I’ve met more bitter police rejects in those outfits over the years than I’d care to count. 🙂
Divemedic · June 24, 2026 at 2:25 pm
You would also be wrong. My record is as clean as a whistle. Show where ANYTHING I have posted here is anticop. I pointed out when the Uvalde pussies stood outside while kids died. I pointed out when the South Florida SWAT team hid behind soccer moms.
I call it like I see it- that doesn’t make me racist or anticop. It means I have a bullshit detector. I have both defended and pointed out fuckups. I just don’t buy the “thin blue line” horseshit. Cops have good ones in the ranks, just like they have fuckups. Just this week, I defended Sheriff Grady Judd, even though I don’t like the fucker. (He is a grandstanding tyrant)
In fact, the *ONLY* guest poster I have ever had on this site was a cop that I gave equal time to when we disagreed about something.
The issue I have is the fuckups always get their asses covered by the others.
Be careful- you are dangerously close to catching a ban.
EDITED TO ADD: You know what, the more I think about it, the more I think I don’t want your name calling here. This is your first article you’ve ever commented on here, and you open your guest experience here by violating mutiple terms of use. I don’t have time for people like you. Ban hammer it is.
hh4745 · June 24, 2026 at 3:34 pm
It seems that a lot of this discussion presumes that the *primary* reason that the Constitution has a Second Amendment is to provide for personal protection or hunting. It’s not. The reason the government recognizes the right given to us by our Creator to own and carry firearms is to inhibit government excess. As Jefferson wrote “”The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
Fundamentally, it *doesn’t matter* whether or not the average Joe is competent to chase down a criminal. What matters is that the US government can’t massacre 40,000 average Joes and Josephines on a whim like the Iranian government did recently when those 40,000 Joes and Josephines are shooting back — even if they are shooting back badly. The model for us is not a carjacking in Chicago. It’s the battle of Athens, TN in 1946.
The contempt that some cops have for the people they are supposed to serve is a symptom of the problem.
Steady Steve · June 24, 2026 at 8:55 pm
Quite the debate going on here. Though it is not explicitly said, I’m wondering if the “veteran” in your post is also a police officer. If so he is exactly the type of person who should not be in law enforcement. Police who view legally armed citizens as some sort of threat or problem are exactly the type that would support a tyrannical government. I am also troubled that our legal system seems to hold armed citizens to a higher standard than the “professionals” in law enforcement. That said, I don’t think most here would go hunting a shooter in some store if they aren’t an immediate threat to us or ours. The whole purpose of going to the range, practicing drawing/dry fire, and taking professional instruction (if you can afford it), is to be ready against the day that you may face a deadly threat.
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